What historical events would have to change in order to make 19th century “steampunk” technology possible?What would need to happen to history to make a 21st century steampunk world?How would technology differ, if fossil fuels never existed?What is the earliest time a pulsejet could be built?What would need to happen to history to make a 21st century steampunk world?Would relatively primitive people really confuse technology with magic?Age of Sails: What would be the reaction of major naval powers of 14-15th century to a 19th century made trading clippers and schooners?What would make airships viable economically?What change in history would I have to make to stop Christmas from happening?In a Victorian Era steampunk D&D campaign: what historic implications would it have if Scotland was underwater?Alchemy in a Steampunk settingWhat fields of computer science would change in a world with mechanical computers?What communication methods would be used on military steampunk aircraft?What sort of rules / limitations could govern and affect a crystal resource that is both anti-gravity and energy-producing?
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What historical events would have to change in order to make 19th century “steampunk” technology possible?
What would need to happen to history to make a 21st century steampunk world?How would technology differ, if fossil fuels never existed?What is the earliest time a pulsejet could be built?What would need to happen to history to make a 21st century steampunk world?Would relatively primitive people really confuse technology with magic?Age of Sails: What would be the reaction of major naval powers of 14-15th century to a 19th century made trading clippers and schooners?What would make airships viable economically?What change in history would I have to make to stop Christmas from happening?In a Victorian Era steampunk D&D campaign: what historic implications would it have if Scotland was underwater?Alchemy in a Steampunk settingWhat fields of computer science would change in a world with mechanical computers?What communication methods would be used on military steampunk aircraft?What sort of rules / limitations could govern and affect a crystal resource that is both anti-gravity and energy-producing?
$begingroup$
I know this is similar to this question but I'm not interested in suppressing 20th century tech to create 21st century steampunk, but in creating late 19th century steampunk with fantastic, Jules Verne-like tech, such as airships to the moon, submarines, time machines, all running on some combination of steam and other (probably fictional) power source(s). My premise is that this sort of world was the "original" timeline (if there is such a thing), history was accidentally changed by time travelers to create the world as it exists today, and another time traveler needs to change it back. Thanks.
time-travel steampunk
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I know this is similar to this question but I'm not interested in suppressing 20th century tech to create 21st century steampunk, but in creating late 19th century steampunk with fantastic, Jules Verne-like tech, such as airships to the moon, submarines, time machines, all running on some combination of steam and other (probably fictional) power source(s). My premise is that this sort of world was the "original" timeline (if there is such a thing), history was accidentally changed by time travelers to create the world as it exists today, and another time traveler needs to change it back. Thanks.
time-travel steampunk
$endgroup$
8
$begingroup$
airships to the moon? It's not about an event, but changing the entire physics.
$endgroup$
– L.Dutch♦
6 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Don't know about precise events but you would need significant advancements in material and energy sciences to make that possible. You would need to be able to miniaturize gas based engines with miniaturized heat and cold sources and sinks. Something that is very difficult even by modern standards.
$endgroup$
– Suhrid Mulay
5 hours ago
5
$begingroup$
Jules Verne never wrote about taking an airship to the Moon. He wrote about firing an enormous shell from a gigantic cannon. He knew perfectly well that outer space is a vacuum. An the time machine is H. G. Wells, a different author from a different country (and with different political views, if that matters). As for what to change: you may want to read Harry Turtledove's The Road Not Taken (1985): it turns out that FTL and gravitation altering are easy, can be done with bronze age tech, it's just that we don't know how.
$endgroup$
– AlexP
5 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Seeing this question could help: without fossil fuel exploitation, no hydrocarbons, thus no plastic, no modern transportation, but also no mass pollution, etc. All the answers there could be useful.
$endgroup$
– kikirex
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
One small point, James - there was actually a (modern) steam powered car for a while in the early days of cars. Check out Jay Leno's "garage" online series, you'll quickly find it - fantastic stuff!
$endgroup$
– Fattie
55 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I know this is similar to this question but I'm not interested in suppressing 20th century tech to create 21st century steampunk, but in creating late 19th century steampunk with fantastic, Jules Verne-like tech, such as airships to the moon, submarines, time machines, all running on some combination of steam and other (probably fictional) power source(s). My premise is that this sort of world was the "original" timeline (if there is such a thing), history was accidentally changed by time travelers to create the world as it exists today, and another time traveler needs to change it back. Thanks.
time-travel steampunk
$endgroup$
I know this is similar to this question but I'm not interested in suppressing 20th century tech to create 21st century steampunk, but in creating late 19th century steampunk with fantastic, Jules Verne-like tech, such as airships to the moon, submarines, time machines, all running on some combination of steam and other (probably fictional) power source(s). My premise is that this sort of world was the "original" timeline (if there is such a thing), history was accidentally changed by time travelers to create the world as it exists today, and another time traveler needs to change it back. Thanks.
time-travel steampunk
time-travel steampunk
edited 5 hours ago
Community♦
1
1
asked 6 hours ago
JamesJames
5371313
5371313
8
$begingroup$
airships to the moon? It's not about an event, but changing the entire physics.
$endgroup$
– L.Dutch♦
6 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Don't know about precise events but you would need significant advancements in material and energy sciences to make that possible. You would need to be able to miniaturize gas based engines with miniaturized heat and cold sources and sinks. Something that is very difficult even by modern standards.
$endgroup$
– Suhrid Mulay
5 hours ago
5
$begingroup$
Jules Verne never wrote about taking an airship to the Moon. He wrote about firing an enormous shell from a gigantic cannon. He knew perfectly well that outer space is a vacuum. An the time machine is H. G. Wells, a different author from a different country (and with different political views, if that matters). As for what to change: you may want to read Harry Turtledove's The Road Not Taken (1985): it turns out that FTL and gravitation altering are easy, can be done with bronze age tech, it's just that we don't know how.
$endgroup$
– AlexP
5 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Seeing this question could help: without fossil fuel exploitation, no hydrocarbons, thus no plastic, no modern transportation, but also no mass pollution, etc. All the answers there could be useful.
$endgroup$
– kikirex
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
One small point, James - there was actually a (modern) steam powered car for a while in the early days of cars. Check out Jay Leno's "garage" online series, you'll quickly find it - fantastic stuff!
$endgroup$
– Fattie
55 mins ago
add a comment |
8
$begingroup$
airships to the moon? It's not about an event, but changing the entire physics.
$endgroup$
– L.Dutch♦
6 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Don't know about precise events but you would need significant advancements in material and energy sciences to make that possible. You would need to be able to miniaturize gas based engines with miniaturized heat and cold sources and sinks. Something that is very difficult even by modern standards.
$endgroup$
– Suhrid Mulay
5 hours ago
5
$begingroup$
Jules Verne never wrote about taking an airship to the Moon. He wrote about firing an enormous shell from a gigantic cannon. He knew perfectly well that outer space is a vacuum. An the time machine is H. G. Wells, a different author from a different country (and with different political views, if that matters). As for what to change: you may want to read Harry Turtledove's The Road Not Taken (1985): it turns out that FTL and gravitation altering are easy, can be done with bronze age tech, it's just that we don't know how.
$endgroup$
– AlexP
5 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Seeing this question could help: without fossil fuel exploitation, no hydrocarbons, thus no plastic, no modern transportation, but also no mass pollution, etc. All the answers there could be useful.
$endgroup$
– kikirex
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
One small point, James - there was actually a (modern) steam powered car for a while in the early days of cars. Check out Jay Leno's "garage" online series, you'll quickly find it - fantastic stuff!
$endgroup$
– Fattie
55 mins ago
8
8
$begingroup$
airships to the moon? It's not about an event, but changing the entire physics.
$endgroup$
– L.Dutch♦
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
airships to the moon? It's not about an event, but changing the entire physics.
$endgroup$
– L.Dutch♦
6 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
Don't know about precise events but you would need significant advancements in material and energy sciences to make that possible. You would need to be able to miniaturize gas based engines with miniaturized heat and cold sources and sinks. Something that is very difficult even by modern standards.
$endgroup$
– Suhrid Mulay
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
Don't know about precise events but you would need significant advancements in material and energy sciences to make that possible. You would need to be able to miniaturize gas based engines with miniaturized heat and cold sources and sinks. Something that is very difficult even by modern standards.
$endgroup$
– Suhrid Mulay
5 hours ago
5
5
$begingroup$
Jules Verne never wrote about taking an airship to the Moon. He wrote about firing an enormous shell from a gigantic cannon. He knew perfectly well that outer space is a vacuum. An the time machine is H. G. Wells, a different author from a different country (and with different political views, if that matters). As for what to change: you may want to read Harry Turtledove's The Road Not Taken (1985): it turns out that FTL and gravitation altering are easy, can be done with bronze age tech, it's just that we don't know how.
$endgroup$
– AlexP
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
Jules Verne never wrote about taking an airship to the Moon. He wrote about firing an enormous shell from a gigantic cannon. He knew perfectly well that outer space is a vacuum. An the time machine is H. G. Wells, a different author from a different country (and with different political views, if that matters). As for what to change: you may want to read Harry Turtledove's The Road Not Taken (1985): it turns out that FTL and gravitation altering are easy, can be done with bronze age tech, it's just that we don't know how.
$endgroup$
– AlexP
5 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
Seeing this question could help: without fossil fuel exploitation, no hydrocarbons, thus no plastic, no modern transportation, but also no mass pollution, etc. All the answers there could be useful.
$endgroup$
– kikirex
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
Seeing this question could help: without fossil fuel exploitation, no hydrocarbons, thus no plastic, no modern transportation, but also no mass pollution, etc. All the answers there could be useful.
$endgroup$
– kikirex
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
One small point, James - there was actually a (modern) steam powered car for a while in the early days of cars. Check out Jay Leno's "garage" online series, you'll quickly find it - fantastic stuff!
$endgroup$
– Fattie
55 mins ago
$begingroup$
One small point, James - there was actually a (modern) steam powered car for a while in the early days of cars. Check out Jay Leno's "garage" online series, you'll quickly find it - fantastic stuff!
$endgroup$
– Fattie
55 mins ago
add a comment |
5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
But we do all run on steam
All (non-renewable) power plants are steam driven. Even nuclear power is a glorified steam engine. What we don't do so much any more is drive directly using the steam, it's now a stage removed from the effect. The steam drives the turbines to generate electricity that drives your machines. As soon as you swap to an electric car, that will run primarily on steam (until wind/solar takes over).
We streamlined it, we hid the pipes and the smoke, toned down the brass and the grease, but it's still all steam powered.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
heh! a great point.
$endgroup$
– Fattie
57 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
You can't do it.
The reason that technology doesn't exist is because the world just doesn't work like that - we just didn't know that during Jules Verne's time.
Change the timeline as much as you like, the laws of the universe don't change.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
I've thought about changing the laws of the universe, but that would be too complicated.
$endgroup$
– James
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
I like this answer so far because it doesn't dance around the face that OP asked about "fantastic, Jules Verne-like tech". Sure, you could make common tech steam-powered, and even introduce time travel via some hand-wavy physics if you had the need, but there's only so much you can hand wave before you're essentially throwing out physics for magic (or at least "science" that is beyond any possible recognition).
$endgroup$
– Broots Waymb
58 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Vhs or Betamax? QWERTY or Dvorak? MP3 or WAV? HTML or some long-forgotten alternative? Should we drive on the left or right side of the road? How wide should train tracks be?
All of these are example of cases where two possible ideas came along at or near to the same time. Some people made one choice, others the opposite choice. For the first four examples, one of the two arrived just enough earlier, or had better advertising, or was able to saturate the market faster, or some other small factor, as to become the "better" standard in the eyes of the buying public, and therefore killed off the competitor. In some cases, one can argue the losing choice carries clear advantages, but not enough to overcome the tidal wave of momentum gained by the ultimate winner.
This is all you need. An inventor with right gumption and determination, coupled with charisma, foresight, and so on, who gets steam ready at just the right time, gets it in the eyes and hearts of the public quicker, and makes it essential to life as they knew it. Now, gasoline and electric can come along and tout itself to the stars, but people won't care- they already have that machine in a steam version, which is cheaper, easier to find parts and service, and works just fine, thank you.
Come to think of it, this is exactly the situation electric cars are having right now. The infrastructure around gasoline is everywhere, and is comparatively cheap. They probably will make it, but they will struggle as they have been for several more years before they do.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Antoine Lavoisier should not have been executed
Lavoisier's importance to science was expressed by Lagrange who
lamented the beheading by saying: "Il ne leur a fallu qu’un moment
pour faire tomber cette tête, et cent années peut-être ne suffiront
pas pour en reproduire une semblable." ("It took them only an instant
to cut off this head, and one hundred years might not suffice to
reproduce its like.")
While Lavoisier is known as one of the greatest scientists of his time, he was also a philanthropist and, more importantly, a competent administrator. Before the Revolution, he had been the manager of the Gunpowder Commission, and an excellent one at that. Anecdotally, he appears to have been of a great help to the founder of the DuPont company.
Alas, he was basically framed for the terrible agricultural policies of the government under the Terror, which made him a convenient scapegoat and gave a pretext for confiscating his fortune. He was summarily convicted with ballooned charges and executed.
And yes, I am still bitter about it.
Now, had he survived the Terror and made it to the quite scientist- and engineer-friendly Napoleonic regime, you can have him develop technologies early. The obvious ones are high-grade steel (that is, more modern blast furnaces) for high-pressure steam engine, smokeless powder/solid rocket propellant and rocketry, or let's be crazy pulsejets and later even maybe ramjets. He had already invented a way to produce hydrogen, and hydrogen balloons were becoming a thing, and he may further pursue the idea as well.
Avoid anything having to do with electricity, though - you want those technologies not developed early for steampunk to work. Ideally, you want them to take a backseat because other early tech are prioritized. So you can have rocket/ramjet supersonic planes without electricity, if you want.
Time travel is a bit harder to place on the tech tree, so you will have to use some handwave there.
A side-effect may be, even with a small technological edge, that Napoleon ultimately wins, or at least ends up with enough strength to impose an advantageous status quo. The Indian subcontinent will be very happy, Spain not so much. Geopolitical consequences are beyond the scope of the question, but at least this would change from the ubiquitous Steampunk British Empire.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
What if Nikola Telsa had prevailed and Edison had not?
Telsa had promised the transmission of electrical power without wires. If this technology had not succeeded (perhaps Marconni's radio interfered with it's success? or electricity itself was deemed to be too dangerous.) Then Telsa could have improved upon his orginal idea of a steam oscillating generator to supply local power where needed. Or prehaps he could colaborate with Madame Curie on to the possiblity of small nuclear powered steam engine powering everything directly and electric powered devices would have stagnated.
Everyday people would just refer to these power plants as dynamos. Steam power could be transfered around the house by a series of leather belts, steam pipes or in some cases pistons. Most of the gadegts we use in modern life (other than personal electronic devices) could be powered by dynamos the size of a small furnace. Office machines, bench mounted tools and household appliances would operate as normal. They would just have to be grouped close together to conserve the kinetic energy or super-heated steam.
Imagine a steam-powered CERN super collider. Another source of motion is pneumatic tubes. If you can generate a strong enough vacuum you can move suprising amounts of weight. There was even a proposed subway system that was to be powered by clean efficient giant pneumatic vacuum tubes.
Basically you would have to supress electricity and greatly increase the efficiency of steam as a power source to create a truly steampunk world.
New contributor
Marlon D. is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
But this still comes back to "you have to change the laws of nature" in order to get Tesla's wireless power to work.
$endgroup$
– jamesqf
37 mins ago
add a comment |
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5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
But we do all run on steam
All (non-renewable) power plants are steam driven. Even nuclear power is a glorified steam engine. What we don't do so much any more is drive directly using the steam, it's now a stage removed from the effect. The steam drives the turbines to generate electricity that drives your machines. As soon as you swap to an electric car, that will run primarily on steam (until wind/solar takes over).
We streamlined it, we hid the pipes and the smoke, toned down the brass and the grease, but it's still all steam powered.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
heh! a great point.
$endgroup$
– Fattie
57 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
But we do all run on steam
All (non-renewable) power plants are steam driven. Even nuclear power is a glorified steam engine. What we don't do so much any more is drive directly using the steam, it's now a stage removed from the effect. The steam drives the turbines to generate electricity that drives your machines. As soon as you swap to an electric car, that will run primarily on steam (until wind/solar takes over).
We streamlined it, we hid the pipes and the smoke, toned down the brass and the grease, but it's still all steam powered.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
heh! a great point.
$endgroup$
– Fattie
57 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
But we do all run on steam
All (non-renewable) power plants are steam driven. Even nuclear power is a glorified steam engine. What we don't do so much any more is drive directly using the steam, it's now a stage removed from the effect. The steam drives the turbines to generate electricity that drives your machines. As soon as you swap to an electric car, that will run primarily on steam (until wind/solar takes over).
We streamlined it, we hid the pipes and the smoke, toned down the brass and the grease, but it's still all steam powered.
$endgroup$
But we do all run on steam
All (non-renewable) power plants are steam driven. Even nuclear power is a glorified steam engine. What we don't do so much any more is drive directly using the steam, it's now a stage removed from the effect. The steam drives the turbines to generate electricity that drives your machines. As soon as you swap to an electric car, that will run primarily on steam (until wind/solar takes over).
We streamlined it, we hid the pipes and the smoke, toned down the brass and the grease, but it's still all steam powered.
answered 5 hours ago
SeparatrixSeparatrix
85k31197330
85k31197330
$begingroup$
heh! a great point.
$endgroup$
– Fattie
57 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
heh! a great point.
$endgroup$
– Fattie
57 mins ago
$begingroup$
heh! a great point.
$endgroup$
– Fattie
57 mins ago
$begingroup$
heh! a great point.
$endgroup$
– Fattie
57 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
You can't do it.
The reason that technology doesn't exist is because the world just doesn't work like that - we just didn't know that during Jules Verne's time.
Change the timeline as much as you like, the laws of the universe don't change.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
I've thought about changing the laws of the universe, but that would be too complicated.
$endgroup$
– James
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
I like this answer so far because it doesn't dance around the face that OP asked about "fantastic, Jules Verne-like tech". Sure, you could make common tech steam-powered, and even introduce time travel via some hand-wavy physics if you had the need, but there's only so much you can hand wave before you're essentially throwing out physics for magic (or at least "science" that is beyond any possible recognition).
$endgroup$
– Broots Waymb
58 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
You can't do it.
The reason that technology doesn't exist is because the world just doesn't work like that - we just didn't know that during Jules Verne's time.
Change the timeline as much as you like, the laws of the universe don't change.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
I've thought about changing the laws of the universe, but that would be too complicated.
$endgroup$
– James
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
I like this answer so far because it doesn't dance around the face that OP asked about "fantastic, Jules Verne-like tech". Sure, you could make common tech steam-powered, and even introduce time travel via some hand-wavy physics if you had the need, but there's only so much you can hand wave before you're essentially throwing out physics for magic (or at least "science" that is beyond any possible recognition).
$endgroup$
– Broots Waymb
58 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
You can't do it.
The reason that technology doesn't exist is because the world just doesn't work like that - we just didn't know that during Jules Verne's time.
Change the timeline as much as you like, the laws of the universe don't change.
$endgroup$
You can't do it.
The reason that technology doesn't exist is because the world just doesn't work like that - we just didn't know that during Jules Verne's time.
Change the timeline as much as you like, the laws of the universe don't change.
answered 5 hours ago
Tim B♦Tim B
63.5k24178299
63.5k24178299
$begingroup$
I've thought about changing the laws of the universe, but that would be too complicated.
$endgroup$
– James
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
I like this answer so far because it doesn't dance around the face that OP asked about "fantastic, Jules Verne-like tech". Sure, you could make common tech steam-powered, and even introduce time travel via some hand-wavy physics if you had the need, but there's only so much you can hand wave before you're essentially throwing out physics for magic (or at least "science" that is beyond any possible recognition).
$endgroup$
– Broots Waymb
58 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I've thought about changing the laws of the universe, but that would be too complicated.
$endgroup$
– James
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
I like this answer so far because it doesn't dance around the face that OP asked about "fantastic, Jules Verne-like tech". Sure, you could make common tech steam-powered, and even introduce time travel via some hand-wavy physics if you had the need, but there's only so much you can hand wave before you're essentially throwing out physics for magic (or at least "science" that is beyond any possible recognition).
$endgroup$
– Broots Waymb
58 mins ago
$begingroup$
I've thought about changing the laws of the universe, but that would be too complicated.
$endgroup$
– James
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
I've thought about changing the laws of the universe, but that would be too complicated.
$endgroup$
– James
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
I like this answer so far because it doesn't dance around the face that OP asked about "fantastic, Jules Verne-like tech". Sure, you could make common tech steam-powered, and even introduce time travel via some hand-wavy physics if you had the need, but there's only so much you can hand wave before you're essentially throwing out physics for magic (or at least "science" that is beyond any possible recognition).
$endgroup$
– Broots Waymb
58 mins ago
$begingroup$
I like this answer so far because it doesn't dance around the face that OP asked about "fantastic, Jules Verne-like tech". Sure, you could make common tech steam-powered, and even introduce time travel via some hand-wavy physics if you had the need, but there's only so much you can hand wave before you're essentially throwing out physics for magic (or at least "science" that is beyond any possible recognition).
$endgroup$
– Broots Waymb
58 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Vhs or Betamax? QWERTY or Dvorak? MP3 or WAV? HTML or some long-forgotten alternative? Should we drive on the left or right side of the road? How wide should train tracks be?
All of these are example of cases where two possible ideas came along at or near to the same time. Some people made one choice, others the opposite choice. For the first four examples, one of the two arrived just enough earlier, or had better advertising, or was able to saturate the market faster, or some other small factor, as to become the "better" standard in the eyes of the buying public, and therefore killed off the competitor. In some cases, one can argue the losing choice carries clear advantages, but not enough to overcome the tidal wave of momentum gained by the ultimate winner.
This is all you need. An inventor with right gumption and determination, coupled with charisma, foresight, and so on, who gets steam ready at just the right time, gets it in the eyes and hearts of the public quicker, and makes it essential to life as they knew it. Now, gasoline and electric can come along and tout itself to the stars, but people won't care- they already have that machine in a steam version, which is cheaper, easier to find parts and service, and works just fine, thank you.
Come to think of it, this is exactly the situation electric cars are having right now. The infrastructure around gasoline is everywhere, and is comparatively cheap. They probably will make it, but they will struggle as they have been for several more years before they do.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Vhs or Betamax? QWERTY or Dvorak? MP3 or WAV? HTML or some long-forgotten alternative? Should we drive on the left or right side of the road? How wide should train tracks be?
All of these are example of cases where two possible ideas came along at or near to the same time. Some people made one choice, others the opposite choice. For the first four examples, one of the two arrived just enough earlier, or had better advertising, or was able to saturate the market faster, or some other small factor, as to become the "better" standard in the eyes of the buying public, and therefore killed off the competitor. In some cases, one can argue the losing choice carries clear advantages, but not enough to overcome the tidal wave of momentum gained by the ultimate winner.
This is all you need. An inventor with right gumption and determination, coupled with charisma, foresight, and so on, who gets steam ready at just the right time, gets it in the eyes and hearts of the public quicker, and makes it essential to life as they knew it. Now, gasoline and electric can come along and tout itself to the stars, but people won't care- they already have that machine in a steam version, which is cheaper, easier to find parts and service, and works just fine, thank you.
Come to think of it, this is exactly the situation electric cars are having right now. The infrastructure around gasoline is everywhere, and is comparatively cheap. They probably will make it, but they will struggle as they have been for several more years before they do.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Vhs or Betamax? QWERTY or Dvorak? MP3 or WAV? HTML or some long-forgotten alternative? Should we drive on the left or right side of the road? How wide should train tracks be?
All of these are example of cases where two possible ideas came along at or near to the same time. Some people made one choice, others the opposite choice. For the first four examples, one of the two arrived just enough earlier, or had better advertising, or was able to saturate the market faster, or some other small factor, as to become the "better" standard in the eyes of the buying public, and therefore killed off the competitor. In some cases, one can argue the losing choice carries clear advantages, but not enough to overcome the tidal wave of momentum gained by the ultimate winner.
This is all you need. An inventor with right gumption and determination, coupled with charisma, foresight, and so on, who gets steam ready at just the right time, gets it in the eyes and hearts of the public quicker, and makes it essential to life as they knew it. Now, gasoline and electric can come along and tout itself to the stars, but people won't care- they already have that machine in a steam version, which is cheaper, easier to find parts and service, and works just fine, thank you.
Come to think of it, this is exactly the situation electric cars are having right now. The infrastructure around gasoline is everywhere, and is comparatively cheap. They probably will make it, but they will struggle as they have been for several more years before they do.
$endgroup$
Vhs or Betamax? QWERTY or Dvorak? MP3 or WAV? HTML or some long-forgotten alternative? Should we drive on the left or right side of the road? How wide should train tracks be?
All of these are example of cases where two possible ideas came along at or near to the same time. Some people made one choice, others the opposite choice. For the first four examples, one of the two arrived just enough earlier, or had better advertising, or was able to saturate the market faster, or some other small factor, as to become the "better" standard in the eyes of the buying public, and therefore killed off the competitor. In some cases, one can argue the losing choice carries clear advantages, but not enough to overcome the tidal wave of momentum gained by the ultimate winner.
This is all you need. An inventor with right gumption and determination, coupled with charisma, foresight, and so on, who gets steam ready at just the right time, gets it in the eyes and hearts of the public quicker, and makes it essential to life as they knew it. Now, gasoline and electric can come along and tout itself to the stars, but people won't care- they already have that machine in a steam version, which is cheaper, easier to find parts and service, and works just fine, thank you.
Come to think of it, this is exactly the situation electric cars are having right now. The infrastructure around gasoline is everywhere, and is comparatively cheap. They probably will make it, but they will struggle as they have been for several more years before they do.
answered 5 hours ago
cobaltduckcobaltduck
7,6462151
7,6462151
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Antoine Lavoisier should not have been executed
Lavoisier's importance to science was expressed by Lagrange who
lamented the beheading by saying: "Il ne leur a fallu qu’un moment
pour faire tomber cette tête, et cent années peut-être ne suffiront
pas pour en reproduire une semblable." ("It took them only an instant
to cut off this head, and one hundred years might not suffice to
reproduce its like.")
While Lavoisier is known as one of the greatest scientists of his time, he was also a philanthropist and, more importantly, a competent administrator. Before the Revolution, he had been the manager of the Gunpowder Commission, and an excellent one at that. Anecdotally, he appears to have been of a great help to the founder of the DuPont company.
Alas, he was basically framed for the terrible agricultural policies of the government under the Terror, which made him a convenient scapegoat and gave a pretext for confiscating his fortune. He was summarily convicted with ballooned charges and executed.
And yes, I am still bitter about it.
Now, had he survived the Terror and made it to the quite scientist- and engineer-friendly Napoleonic regime, you can have him develop technologies early. The obvious ones are high-grade steel (that is, more modern blast furnaces) for high-pressure steam engine, smokeless powder/solid rocket propellant and rocketry, or let's be crazy pulsejets and later even maybe ramjets. He had already invented a way to produce hydrogen, and hydrogen balloons were becoming a thing, and he may further pursue the idea as well.
Avoid anything having to do with electricity, though - you want those technologies not developed early for steampunk to work. Ideally, you want them to take a backseat because other early tech are prioritized. So you can have rocket/ramjet supersonic planes without electricity, if you want.
Time travel is a bit harder to place on the tech tree, so you will have to use some handwave there.
A side-effect may be, even with a small technological edge, that Napoleon ultimately wins, or at least ends up with enough strength to impose an advantageous status quo. The Indian subcontinent will be very happy, Spain not so much. Geopolitical consequences are beyond the scope of the question, but at least this would change from the ubiquitous Steampunk British Empire.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Antoine Lavoisier should not have been executed
Lavoisier's importance to science was expressed by Lagrange who
lamented the beheading by saying: "Il ne leur a fallu qu’un moment
pour faire tomber cette tête, et cent années peut-être ne suffiront
pas pour en reproduire une semblable." ("It took them only an instant
to cut off this head, and one hundred years might not suffice to
reproduce its like.")
While Lavoisier is known as one of the greatest scientists of his time, he was also a philanthropist and, more importantly, a competent administrator. Before the Revolution, he had been the manager of the Gunpowder Commission, and an excellent one at that. Anecdotally, he appears to have been of a great help to the founder of the DuPont company.
Alas, he was basically framed for the terrible agricultural policies of the government under the Terror, which made him a convenient scapegoat and gave a pretext for confiscating his fortune. He was summarily convicted with ballooned charges and executed.
And yes, I am still bitter about it.
Now, had he survived the Terror and made it to the quite scientist- and engineer-friendly Napoleonic regime, you can have him develop technologies early. The obvious ones are high-grade steel (that is, more modern blast furnaces) for high-pressure steam engine, smokeless powder/solid rocket propellant and rocketry, or let's be crazy pulsejets and later even maybe ramjets. He had already invented a way to produce hydrogen, and hydrogen balloons were becoming a thing, and he may further pursue the idea as well.
Avoid anything having to do with electricity, though - you want those technologies not developed early for steampunk to work. Ideally, you want them to take a backseat because other early tech are prioritized. So you can have rocket/ramjet supersonic planes without electricity, if you want.
Time travel is a bit harder to place on the tech tree, so you will have to use some handwave there.
A side-effect may be, even with a small technological edge, that Napoleon ultimately wins, or at least ends up with enough strength to impose an advantageous status quo. The Indian subcontinent will be very happy, Spain not so much. Geopolitical consequences are beyond the scope of the question, but at least this would change from the ubiquitous Steampunk British Empire.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Antoine Lavoisier should not have been executed
Lavoisier's importance to science was expressed by Lagrange who
lamented the beheading by saying: "Il ne leur a fallu qu’un moment
pour faire tomber cette tête, et cent années peut-être ne suffiront
pas pour en reproduire une semblable." ("It took them only an instant
to cut off this head, and one hundred years might not suffice to
reproduce its like.")
While Lavoisier is known as one of the greatest scientists of his time, he was also a philanthropist and, more importantly, a competent administrator. Before the Revolution, he had been the manager of the Gunpowder Commission, and an excellent one at that. Anecdotally, he appears to have been of a great help to the founder of the DuPont company.
Alas, he was basically framed for the terrible agricultural policies of the government under the Terror, which made him a convenient scapegoat and gave a pretext for confiscating his fortune. He was summarily convicted with ballooned charges and executed.
And yes, I am still bitter about it.
Now, had he survived the Terror and made it to the quite scientist- and engineer-friendly Napoleonic regime, you can have him develop technologies early. The obvious ones are high-grade steel (that is, more modern blast furnaces) for high-pressure steam engine, smokeless powder/solid rocket propellant and rocketry, or let's be crazy pulsejets and later even maybe ramjets. He had already invented a way to produce hydrogen, and hydrogen balloons were becoming a thing, and he may further pursue the idea as well.
Avoid anything having to do with electricity, though - you want those technologies not developed early for steampunk to work. Ideally, you want them to take a backseat because other early tech are prioritized. So you can have rocket/ramjet supersonic planes without electricity, if you want.
Time travel is a bit harder to place on the tech tree, so you will have to use some handwave there.
A side-effect may be, even with a small technological edge, that Napoleon ultimately wins, or at least ends up with enough strength to impose an advantageous status quo. The Indian subcontinent will be very happy, Spain not so much. Geopolitical consequences are beyond the scope of the question, but at least this would change from the ubiquitous Steampunk British Empire.
$endgroup$
Antoine Lavoisier should not have been executed
Lavoisier's importance to science was expressed by Lagrange who
lamented the beheading by saying: "Il ne leur a fallu qu’un moment
pour faire tomber cette tête, et cent années peut-être ne suffiront
pas pour en reproduire une semblable." ("It took them only an instant
to cut off this head, and one hundred years might not suffice to
reproduce its like.")
While Lavoisier is known as one of the greatest scientists of his time, he was also a philanthropist and, more importantly, a competent administrator. Before the Revolution, he had been the manager of the Gunpowder Commission, and an excellent one at that. Anecdotally, he appears to have been of a great help to the founder of the DuPont company.
Alas, he was basically framed for the terrible agricultural policies of the government under the Terror, which made him a convenient scapegoat and gave a pretext for confiscating his fortune. He was summarily convicted with ballooned charges and executed.
And yes, I am still bitter about it.
Now, had he survived the Terror and made it to the quite scientist- and engineer-friendly Napoleonic regime, you can have him develop technologies early. The obvious ones are high-grade steel (that is, more modern blast furnaces) for high-pressure steam engine, smokeless powder/solid rocket propellant and rocketry, or let's be crazy pulsejets and later even maybe ramjets. He had already invented a way to produce hydrogen, and hydrogen balloons were becoming a thing, and he may further pursue the idea as well.
Avoid anything having to do with electricity, though - you want those technologies not developed early for steampunk to work. Ideally, you want them to take a backseat because other early tech are prioritized. So you can have rocket/ramjet supersonic planes without electricity, if you want.
Time travel is a bit harder to place on the tech tree, so you will have to use some handwave there.
A side-effect may be, even with a small technological edge, that Napoleon ultimately wins, or at least ends up with enough strength to impose an advantageous status quo. The Indian subcontinent will be very happy, Spain not so much. Geopolitical consequences are beyond the scope of the question, but at least this would change from the ubiquitous Steampunk British Empire.
answered 2 hours ago
EthEth
2,4261618
2,4261618
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
What if Nikola Telsa had prevailed and Edison had not?
Telsa had promised the transmission of electrical power without wires. If this technology had not succeeded (perhaps Marconni's radio interfered with it's success? or electricity itself was deemed to be too dangerous.) Then Telsa could have improved upon his orginal idea of a steam oscillating generator to supply local power where needed. Or prehaps he could colaborate with Madame Curie on to the possiblity of small nuclear powered steam engine powering everything directly and electric powered devices would have stagnated.
Everyday people would just refer to these power plants as dynamos. Steam power could be transfered around the house by a series of leather belts, steam pipes or in some cases pistons. Most of the gadegts we use in modern life (other than personal electronic devices) could be powered by dynamos the size of a small furnace. Office machines, bench mounted tools and household appliances would operate as normal. They would just have to be grouped close together to conserve the kinetic energy or super-heated steam.
Imagine a steam-powered CERN super collider. Another source of motion is pneumatic tubes. If you can generate a strong enough vacuum you can move suprising amounts of weight. There was even a proposed subway system that was to be powered by clean efficient giant pneumatic vacuum tubes.
Basically you would have to supress electricity and greatly increase the efficiency of steam as a power source to create a truly steampunk world.
New contributor
Marlon D. is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
But this still comes back to "you have to change the laws of nature" in order to get Tesla's wireless power to work.
$endgroup$
– jamesqf
37 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
What if Nikola Telsa had prevailed and Edison had not?
Telsa had promised the transmission of electrical power without wires. If this technology had not succeeded (perhaps Marconni's radio interfered with it's success? or electricity itself was deemed to be too dangerous.) Then Telsa could have improved upon his orginal idea of a steam oscillating generator to supply local power where needed. Or prehaps he could colaborate with Madame Curie on to the possiblity of small nuclear powered steam engine powering everything directly and electric powered devices would have stagnated.
Everyday people would just refer to these power plants as dynamos. Steam power could be transfered around the house by a series of leather belts, steam pipes or in some cases pistons. Most of the gadegts we use in modern life (other than personal electronic devices) could be powered by dynamos the size of a small furnace. Office machines, bench mounted tools and household appliances would operate as normal. They would just have to be grouped close together to conserve the kinetic energy or super-heated steam.
Imagine a steam-powered CERN super collider. Another source of motion is pneumatic tubes. If you can generate a strong enough vacuum you can move suprising amounts of weight. There was even a proposed subway system that was to be powered by clean efficient giant pneumatic vacuum tubes.
Basically you would have to supress electricity and greatly increase the efficiency of steam as a power source to create a truly steampunk world.
New contributor
Marlon D. is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
But this still comes back to "you have to change the laws of nature" in order to get Tesla's wireless power to work.
$endgroup$
– jamesqf
37 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
What if Nikola Telsa had prevailed and Edison had not?
Telsa had promised the transmission of electrical power without wires. If this technology had not succeeded (perhaps Marconni's radio interfered with it's success? or electricity itself was deemed to be too dangerous.) Then Telsa could have improved upon his orginal idea of a steam oscillating generator to supply local power where needed. Or prehaps he could colaborate with Madame Curie on to the possiblity of small nuclear powered steam engine powering everything directly and electric powered devices would have stagnated.
Everyday people would just refer to these power plants as dynamos. Steam power could be transfered around the house by a series of leather belts, steam pipes or in some cases pistons. Most of the gadegts we use in modern life (other than personal electronic devices) could be powered by dynamos the size of a small furnace. Office machines, bench mounted tools and household appliances would operate as normal. They would just have to be grouped close together to conserve the kinetic energy or super-heated steam.
Imagine a steam-powered CERN super collider. Another source of motion is pneumatic tubes. If you can generate a strong enough vacuum you can move suprising amounts of weight. There was even a proposed subway system that was to be powered by clean efficient giant pneumatic vacuum tubes.
Basically you would have to supress electricity and greatly increase the efficiency of steam as a power source to create a truly steampunk world.
New contributor
Marlon D. is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$endgroup$
What if Nikola Telsa had prevailed and Edison had not?
Telsa had promised the transmission of electrical power without wires. If this technology had not succeeded (perhaps Marconni's radio interfered with it's success? or electricity itself was deemed to be too dangerous.) Then Telsa could have improved upon his orginal idea of a steam oscillating generator to supply local power where needed. Or prehaps he could colaborate with Madame Curie on to the possiblity of small nuclear powered steam engine powering everything directly and electric powered devices would have stagnated.
Everyday people would just refer to these power plants as dynamos. Steam power could be transfered around the house by a series of leather belts, steam pipes or in some cases pistons. Most of the gadegts we use in modern life (other than personal electronic devices) could be powered by dynamos the size of a small furnace. Office machines, bench mounted tools and household appliances would operate as normal. They would just have to be grouped close together to conserve the kinetic energy or super-heated steam.
Imagine a steam-powered CERN super collider. Another source of motion is pneumatic tubes. If you can generate a strong enough vacuum you can move suprising amounts of weight. There was even a proposed subway system that was to be powered by clean efficient giant pneumatic vacuum tubes.
Basically you would have to supress electricity and greatly increase the efficiency of steam as a power source to create a truly steampunk world.
New contributor
Marlon D. is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Marlon D. is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
answered 51 mins ago
Marlon D.Marlon D.
1091
1091
New contributor
Marlon D. is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Marlon D. is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Marlon D. is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$begingroup$
But this still comes back to "you have to change the laws of nature" in order to get Tesla's wireless power to work.
$endgroup$
– jamesqf
37 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
But this still comes back to "you have to change the laws of nature" in order to get Tesla's wireless power to work.
$endgroup$
– jamesqf
37 mins ago
$begingroup$
But this still comes back to "you have to change the laws of nature" in order to get Tesla's wireless power to work.
$endgroup$
– jamesqf
37 mins ago
$begingroup$
But this still comes back to "you have to change the laws of nature" in order to get Tesla's wireless power to work.
$endgroup$
– jamesqf
37 mins ago
add a comment |
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8
$begingroup$
airships to the moon? It's not about an event, but changing the entire physics.
$endgroup$
– L.Dutch♦
6 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Don't know about precise events but you would need significant advancements in material and energy sciences to make that possible. You would need to be able to miniaturize gas based engines with miniaturized heat and cold sources and sinks. Something that is very difficult even by modern standards.
$endgroup$
– Suhrid Mulay
5 hours ago
5
$begingroup$
Jules Verne never wrote about taking an airship to the Moon. He wrote about firing an enormous shell from a gigantic cannon. He knew perfectly well that outer space is a vacuum. An the time machine is H. G. Wells, a different author from a different country (and with different political views, if that matters). As for what to change: you may want to read Harry Turtledove's The Road Not Taken (1985): it turns out that FTL and gravitation altering are easy, can be done with bronze age tech, it's just that we don't know how.
$endgroup$
– AlexP
5 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Seeing this question could help: without fossil fuel exploitation, no hydrocarbons, thus no plastic, no modern transportation, but also no mass pollution, etc. All the answers there could be useful.
$endgroup$
– kikirex
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
One small point, James - there was actually a (modern) steam powered car for a while in the early days of cars. Check out Jay Leno's "garage" online series, you'll quickly find it - fantastic stuff!
$endgroup$
– Fattie
55 mins ago