Is it possible to map the firing of neurons in the human brain so as to stimulate artificial memories in someone else?What happens to a human who receives more information than the brain can process?How might a machine to combine divergent experiences of two clones work?How does the full moon effect the human body? (CONTEXT: Possible causes for werewolf transformations)What is the bit rate of a human brain?Cameras replacing human eyes after an accident: Is there a limit to how high resolution the brain can process?What would happen if the brain disappeared only for microseconds in a human being?Memories stored in hair: social and cultural consequencesProbing neurons to map someones brainIs it possible for the Earth to enter a period of naturally-occuring perpetual winter and still sustain human life?If an Artificial Intelligence system with the same number of neurons and synapses as the human brain was built, would it be smarter than a human?

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Is it possible to map the firing of neurons in the human brain so as to stimulate artificial memories in someone else?


What happens to a human who receives more information than the brain can process?How might a machine to combine divergent experiences of two clones work?How does the full moon effect the human body? (CONTEXT: Possible causes for werewolf transformations)What is the bit rate of a human brain?Cameras replacing human eyes after an accident: Is there a limit to how high resolution the brain can process?What would happen if the brain disappeared only for microseconds in a human being?Memories stored in hair: social and cultural consequencesProbing neurons to map someones brainIs it possible for the Earth to enter a period of naturally-occuring perpetual winter and still sustain human life?If an Artificial Intelligence system with the same number of neurons and synapses as the human brain was built, would it be smarter than a human?













4












$begingroup$


My question is based on the following excerpt from an article I read recently:




Since the early neurological work of Karl Lashley and Wilder Penfield in the 1950s and 1960s, it has become clear that long-term memories are not stored in just one part of the brain, but are widely distributed throughout the cortex. After consolidation, long-term memories are stored throughout the brain as groups of neurons that are primed to fire together in the same pattern that created the original experience, and each component of a memory is stored in the brain area that initiated it (e.g. groups of neurons in the visual cortex store a sight, neurons in the amygdala store the associated emotion, etc). Indeed, it seems that they may even be encoded redundantly, several times, in various parts of the cortex, so that, if one engram (or memory trace) is wiped out, there are duplicates, or alternative pathways, elsewhere, through which the memory may still be retrieved.




Is it, therefore, theoretically possible to create a machine that perfectly maps out the way in which neurons fire in Patient A regarding a certain memory, and then to stimulate an identical firing of neurons in Patient B, so as to allow them to live that memory or even believe it to be theirs?



By extension, could this machine map out the neuron firing order that occurs while someone studies mathematics or physics, and then to replicate such firing in another person so as to impart that knowledge upon them? Or is there some additional element that arises when living through the experience yourself that cannot be reproduced in such a binary fashion as "firing of neutrons". If so, what does that say about the passage quoted above?










share|improve this question









New contributor




Red Robin is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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  • $begingroup$
    "Stimulate an identical firing of neurons in Patient B:" in this sentence the word "identical" cannot possibly mean "identical". Two different persons, even "identical" twins, have different neural connectomes.
    $endgroup$
    – AlexP
    4 hours ago















4












$begingroup$


My question is based on the following excerpt from an article I read recently:




Since the early neurological work of Karl Lashley and Wilder Penfield in the 1950s and 1960s, it has become clear that long-term memories are not stored in just one part of the brain, but are widely distributed throughout the cortex. After consolidation, long-term memories are stored throughout the brain as groups of neurons that are primed to fire together in the same pattern that created the original experience, and each component of a memory is stored in the brain area that initiated it (e.g. groups of neurons in the visual cortex store a sight, neurons in the amygdala store the associated emotion, etc). Indeed, it seems that they may even be encoded redundantly, several times, in various parts of the cortex, so that, if one engram (or memory trace) is wiped out, there are duplicates, or alternative pathways, elsewhere, through which the memory may still be retrieved.




Is it, therefore, theoretically possible to create a machine that perfectly maps out the way in which neurons fire in Patient A regarding a certain memory, and then to stimulate an identical firing of neurons in Patient B, so as to allow them to live that memory or even believe it to be theirs?



By extension, could this machine map out the neuron firing order that occurs while someone studies mathematics or physics, and then to replicate such firing in another person so as to impart that knowledge upon them? Or is there some additional element that arises when living through the experience yourself that cannot be reproduced in such a binary fashion as "firing of neutrons". If so, what does that say about the passage quoted above?










share|improve this question









New contributor




Red Robin is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$











  • $begingroup$
    "Stimulate an identical firing of neurons in Patient B:" in this sentence the word "identical" cannot possibly mean "identical". Two different persons, even "identical" twins, have different neural connectomes.
    $endgroup$
    – AlexP
    4 hours ago













4












4








4





$begingroup$


My question is based on the following excerpt from an article I read recently:




Since the early neurological work of Karl Lashley and Wilder Penfield in the 1950s and 1960s, it has become clear that long-term memories are not stored in just one part of the brain, but are widely distributed throughout the cortex. After consolidation, long-term memories are stored throughout the brain as groups of neurons that are primed to fire together in the same pattern that created the original experience, and each component of a memory is stored in the brain area that initiated it (e.g. groups of neurons in the visual cortex store a sight, neurons in the amygdala store the associated emotion, etc). Indeed, it seems that they may even be encoded redundantly, several times, in various parts of the cortex, so that, if one engram (or memory trace) is wiped out, there are duplicates, or alternative pathways, elsewhere, through which the memory may still be retrieved.




Is it, therefore, theoretically possible to create a machine that perfectly maps out the way in which neurons fire in Patient A regarding a certain memory, and then to stimulate an identical firing of neurons in Patient B, so as to allow them to live that memory or even believe it to be theirs?



By extension, could this machine map out the neuron firing order that occurs while someone studies mathematics or physics, and then to replicate such firing in another person so as to impart that knowledge upon them? Or is there some additional element that arises when living through the experience yourself that cannot be reproduced in such a binary fashion as "firing of neutrons". If so, what does that say about the passage quoted above?










share|improve this question









New contributor




Red Robin is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$




My question is based on the following excerpt from an article I read recently:




Since the early neurological work of Karl Lashley and Wilder Penfield in the 1950s and 1960s, it has become clear that long-term memories are not stored in just one part of the brain, but are widely distributed throughout the cortex. After consolidation, long-term memories are stored throughout the brain as groups of neurons that are primed to fire together in the same pattern that created the original experience, and each component of a memory is stored in the brain area that initiated it (e.g. groups of neurons in the visual cortex store a sight, neurons in the amygdala store the associated emotion, etc). Indeed, it seems that they may even be encoded redundantly, several times, in various parts of the cortex, so that, if one engram (or memory trace) is wiped out, there are duplicates, or alternative pathways, elsewhere, through which the memory may still be retrieved.




Is it, therefore, theoretically possible to create a machine that perfectly maps out the way in which neurons fire in Patient A regarding a certain memory, and then to stimulate an identical firing of neurons in Patient B, so as to allow them to live that memory or even believe it to be theirs?



By extension, could this machine map out the neuron firing order that occurs while someone studies mathematics or physics, and then to replicate such firing in another person so as to impart that knowledge upon them? Or is there some additional element that arises when living through the experience yourself that cannot be reproduced in such a binary fashion as "firing of neutrons". If so, what does that say about the passage quoted above?







science-based science-fiction brain memory






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edited 3 hours ago









Cyn

10.9k12349




10.9k12349






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asked 4 hours ago









Red RobinRed Robin

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  • $begingroup$
    "Stimulate an identical firing of neurons in Patient B:" in this sentence the word "identical" cannot possibly mean "identical". Two different persons, even "identical" twins, have different neural connectomes.
    $endgroup$
    – AlexP
    4 hours ago
















  • $begingroup$
    "Stimulate an identical firing of neurons in Patient B:" in this sentence the word "identical" cannot possibly mean "identical". Two different persons, even "identical" twins, have different neural connectomes.
    $endgroup$
    – AlexP
    4 hours ago















$begingroup$
"Stimulate an identical firing of neurons in Patient B:" in this sentence the word "identical" cannot possibly mean "identical". Two different persons, even "identical" twins, have different neural connectomes.
$endgroup$
– AlexP
4 hours ago




$begingroup$
"Stimulate an identical firing of neurons in Patient B:" in this sentence the word "identical" cannot possibly mean "identical". Two different persons, even "identical" twins, have different neural connectomes.
$endgroup$
– AlexP
4 hours ago










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















11












$begingroup$


a machine that perfectly maps out the way in which neurons fire in Patient A regarding a certain memory, and then to stimulate an identical firing of neurons in Patient B, so as to allow them to live that memory or even believe it to be theirs?




This can only work if the wiring of the neurons in our brain is standardized and homogeneous like the circuitry in a high end smartphone. Sadly, that's not the case.



It is known that from the moment we are born any experience we have remodel the neurons and their connection: those more used are kept, those unused are discarded. This means that no two persons have the same neurons and connections. Thus, at most, firing pattern(A) into B would result in noise, like opening an encrypted file without unencrypting it.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    I broadly agree with you here, but it's not entirely inconceivable (especially in a scifi setting) that structure mapped from one brain might be comprehensible in some way to another. Consider e.g. the concept of transfer learning with deep neural networks, and the fact that our brains do encode information similarly - not in terms of specific connections, but architecturally. Of course it wouldn't be plug-and-play, but rather incorporated or reified in some gradual way.
    $endgroup$
    – John K
    1 hour ago



















3












$begingroup$

No, each person brain is different and the map from one will not produce the same results in another.



Due to plasticity and how each brain is individually trained to your sensory organs and experiences each memory in each brain is unique. Each brain a has a unique map of connections called a Connectome. A perfect copy of someone else's memory would require identical brains otherwise the linkages will not match up with the rest of the brain. Your map for concepts is not identical to mine, so the connections will not be to the same concepts. Your spliced inot connections will produce nonsense. Research into artificial senses show the same problem, their solution is an extended process by which the brain and the interface learn each others connections, basically the same way you learn to see with your eyes as a baby.



additional source






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    This drives home your point about plasticity and individuation of connectomes - from Wikipedia Connectome>Neuroplasticity: "Microscale rewiring is the formation or removal of synaptic connections between two neurons and can be studied with longitudinal two-photon imaging. Dendritic spines on pyramidal neurons can be shown forming within days following sensory experience and learning.[33][34][35] Changes can even be seen within five hours on apical tufts of layer five pyramidal neurons in the primary motor cortex after a seed reaching task in primates.[35]"
    $endgroup$
    – GerardFalla
    2 hours ago











Your Answer





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2 Answers
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2 Answers
2






active

oldest

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active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









11












$begingroup$


a machine that perfectly maps out the way in which neurons fire in Patient A regarding a certain memory, and then to stimulate an identical firing of neurons in Patient B, so as to allow them to live that memory or even believe it to be theirs?




This can only work if the wiring of the neurons in our brain is standardized and homogeneous like the circuitry in a high end smartphone. Sadly, that's not the case.



It is known that from the moment we are born any experience we have remodel the neurons and their connection: those more used are kept, those unused are discarded. This means that no two persons have the same neurons and connections. Thus, at most, firing pattern(A) into B would result in noise, like opening an encrypted file without unencrypting it.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    I broadly agree with you here, but it's not entirely inconceivable (especially in a scifi setting) that structure mapped from one brain might be comprehensible in some way to another. Consider e.g. the concept of transfer learning with deep neural networks, and the fact that our brains do encode information similarly - not in terms of specific connections, but architecturally. Of course it wouldn't be plug-and-play, but rather incorporated or reified in some gradual way.
    $endgroup$
    – John K
    1 hour ago
















11












$begingroup$


a machine that perfectly maps out the way in which neurons fire in Patient A regarding a certain memory, and then to stimulate an identical firing of neurons in Patient B, so as to allow them to live that memory or even believe it to be theirs?




This can only work if the wiring of the neurons in our brain is standardized and homogeneous like the circuitry in a high end smartphone. Sadly, that's not the case.



It is known that from the moment we are born any experience we have remodel the neurons and their connection: those more used are kept, those unused are discarded. This means that no two persons have the same neurons and connections. Thus, at most, firing pattern(A) into B would result in noise, like opening an encrypted file without unencrypting it.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    I broadly agree with you here, but it's not entirely inconceivable (especially in a scifi setting) that structure mapped from one brain might be comprehensible in some way to another. Consider e.g. the concept of transfer learning with deep neural networks, and the fact that our brains do encode information similarly - not in terms of specific connections, but architecturally. Of course it wouldn't be plug-and-play, but rather incorporated or reified in some gradual way.
    $endgroup$
    – John K
    1 hour ago














11












11








11





$begingroup$


a machine that perfectly maps out the way in which neurons fire in Patient A regarding a certain memory, and then to stimulate an identical firing of neurons in Patient B, so as to allow them to live that memory or even believe it to be theirs?




This can only work if the wiring of the neurons in our brain is standardized and homogeneous like the circuitry in a high end smartphone. Sadly, that's not the case.



It is known that from the moment we are born any experience we have remodel the neurons and their connection: those more used are kept, those unused are discarded. This means that no two persons have the same neurons and connections. Thus, at most, firing pattern(A) into B would result in noise, like opening an encrypted file without unencrypting it.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$




a machine that perfectly maps out the way in which neurons fire in Patient A regarding a certain memory, and then to stimulate an identical firing of neurons in Patient B, so as to allow them to live that memory or even believe it to be theirs?




This can only work if the wiring of the neurons in our brain is standardized and homogeneous like the circuitry in a high end smartphone. Sadly, that's not the case.



It is known that from the moment we are born any experience we have remodel the neurons and their connection: those more used are kept, those unused are discarded. This means that no two persons have the same neurons and connections. Thus, at most, firing pattern(A) into B would result in noise, like opening an encrypted file without unencrypting it.







share|improve this answer












share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer










answered 4 hours ago









L.DutchL.Dutch

89.8k29208436




89.8k29208436











  • $begingroup$
    I broadly agree with you here, but it's not entirely inconceivable (especially in a scifi setting) that structure mapped from one brain might be comprehensible in some way to another. Consider e.g. the concept of transfer learning with deep neural networks, and the fact that our brains do encode information similarly - not in terms of specific connections, but architecturally. Of course it wouldn't be plug-and-play, but rather incorporated or reified in some gradual way.
    $endgroup$
    – John K
    1 hour ago

















  • $begingroup$
    I broadly agree with you here, but it's not entirely inconceivable (especially in a scifi setting) that structure mapped from one brain might be comprehensible in some way to another. Consider e.g. the concept of transfer learning with deep neural networks, and the fact that our brains do encode information similarly - not in terms of specific connections, but architecturally. Of course it wouldn't be plug-and-play, but rather incorporated or reified in some gradual way.
    $endgroup$
    – John K
    1 hour ago
















$begingroup$
I broadly agree with you here, but it's not entirely inconceivable (especially in a scifi setting) that structure mapped from one brain might be comprehensible in some way to another. Consider e.g. the concept of transfer learning with deep neural networks, and the fact that our brains do encode information similarly - not in terms of specific connections, but architecturally. Of course it wouldn't be plug-and-play, but rather incorporated or reified in some gradual way.
$endgroup$
– John K
1 hour ago





$begingroup$
I broadly agree with you here, but it's not entirely inconceivable (especially in a scifi setting) that structure mapped from one brain might be comprehensible in some way to another. Consider e.g. the concept of transfer learning with deep neural networks, and the fact that our brains do encode information similarly - not in terms of specific connections, but architecturally. Of course it wouldn't be plug-and-play, but rather incorporated or reified in some gradual way.
$endgroup$
– John K
1 hour ago












3












$begingroup$

No, each person brain is different and the map from one will not produce the same results in another.



Due to plasticity and how each brain is individually trained to your sensory organs and experiences each memory in each brain is unique. Each brain a has a unique map of connections called a Connectome. A perfect copy of someone else's memory would require identical brains otherwise the linkages will not match up with the rest of the brain. Your map for concepts is not identical to mine, so the connections will not be to the same concepts. Your spliced inot connections will produce nonsense. Research into artificial senses show the same problem, their solution is an extended process by which the brain and the interface learn each others connections, basically the same way you learn to see with your eyes as a baby.



additional source






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    This drives home your point about plasticity and individuation of connectomes - from Wikipedia Connectome>Neuroplasticity: "Microscale rewiring is the formation or removal of synaptic connections between two neurons and can be studied with longitudinal two-photon imaging. Dendritic spines on pyramidal neurons can be shown forming within days following sensory experience and learning.[33][34][35] Changes can even be seen within five hours on apical tufts of layer five pyramidal neurons in the primary motor cortex after a seed reaching task in primates.[35]"
    $endgroup$
    – GerardFalla
    2 hours ago















3












$begingroup$

No, each person brain is different and the map from one will not produce the same results in another.



Due to plasticity and how each brain is individually trained to your sensory organs and experiences each memory in each brain is unique. Each brain a has a unique map of connections called a Connectome. A perfect copy of someone else's memory would require identical brains otherwise the linkages will not match up with the rest of the brain. Your map for concepts is not identical to mine, so the connections will not be to the same concepts. Your spliced inot connections will produce nonsense. Research into artificial senses show the same problem, their solution is an extended process by which the brain and the interface learn each others connections, basically the same way you learn to see with your eyes as a baby.



additional source






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    This drives home your point about plasticity and individuation of connectomes - from Wikipedia Connectome>Neuroplasticity: "Microscale rewiring is the formation or removal of synaptic connections between two neurons and can be studied with longitudinal two-photon imaging. Dendritic spines on pyramidal neurons can be shown forming within days following sensory experience and learning.[33][34][35] Changes can even be seen within five hours on apical tufts of layer five pyramidal neurons in the primary motor cortex after a seed reaching task in primates.[35]"
    $endgroup$
    – GerardFalla
    2 hours ago













3












3








3





$begingroup$

No, each person brain is different and the map from one will not produce the same results in another.



Due to plasticity and how each brain is individually trained to your sensory organs and experiences each memory in each brain is unique. Each brain a has a unique map of connections called a Connectome. A perfect copy of someone else's memory would require identical brains otherwise the linkages will not match up with the rest of the brain. Your map for concepts is not identical to mine, so the connections will not be to the same concepts. Your spliced inot connections will produce nonsense. Research into artificial senses show the same problem, their solution is an extended process by which the brain and the interface learn each others connections, basically the same way you learn to see with your eyes as a baby.



additional source






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$



No, each person brain is different and the map from one will not produce the same results in another.



Due to plasticity and how each brain is individually trained to your sensory organs and experiences each memory in each brain is unique. Each brain a has a unique map of connections called a Connectome. A perfect copy of someone else's memory would require identical brains otherwise the linkages will not match up with the rest of the brain. Your map for concepts is not identical to mine, so the connections will not be to the same concepts. Your spliced inot connections will produce nonsense. Research into artificial senses show the same problem, their solution is an extended process by which the brain and the interface learn each others connections, basically the same way you learn to see with your eyes as a baby.



additional source







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited 3 hours ago









Renan

52k15119258




52k15119258










answered 3 hours ago









JohnJohn

36k1048122




36k1048122











  • $begingroup$
    This drives home your point about plasticity and individuation of connectomes - from Wikipedia Connectome>Neuroplasticity: "Microscale rewiring is the formation or removal of synaptic connections between two neurons and can be studied with longitudinal two-photon imaging. Dendritic spines on pyramidal neurons can be shown forming within days following sensory experience and learning.[33][34][35] Changes can even be seen within five hours on apical tufts of layer five pyramidal neurons in the primary motor cortex after a seed reaching task in primates.[35]"
    $endgroup$
    – GerardFalla
    2 hours ago
















  • $begingroup$
    This drives home your point about plasticity and individuation of connectomes - from Wikipedia Connectome>Neuroplasticity: "Microscale rewiring is the formation or removal of synaptic connections between two neurons and can be studied with longitudinal two-photon imaging. Dendritic spines on pyramidal neurons can be shown forming within days following sensory experience and learning.[33][34][35] Changes can even be seen within five hours on apical tufts of layer five pyramidal neurons in the primary motor cortex after a seed reaching task in primates.[35]"
    $endgroup$
    – GerardFalla
    2 hours ago















$begingroup$
This drives home your point about plasticity and individuation of connectomes - from Wikipedia Connectome>Neuroplasticity: "Microscale rewiring is the formation or removal of synaptic connections between two neurons and can be studied with longitudinal two-photon imaging. Dendritic spines on pyramidal neurons can be shown forming within days following sensory experience and learning.[33][34][35] Changes can even be seen within five hours on apical tufts of layer five pyramidal neurons in the primary motor cortex after a seed reaching task in primates.[35]"
$endgroup$
– GerardFalla
2 hours ago




$begingroup$
This drives home your point about plasticity and individuation of connectomes - from Wikipedia Connectome>Neuroplasticity: "Microscale rewiring is the formation or removal of synaptic connections between two neurons and can be studied with longitudinal two-photon imaging. Dendritic spines on pyramidal neurons can be shown forming within days following sensory experience and learning.[33][34][35] Changes can even be seen within five hours on apical tufts of layer five pyramidal neurons in the primary motor cortex after a seed reaching task in primates.[35]"
$endgroup$
– GerardFalla
2 hours ago










Red Robin is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.









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