GFCI outlets - can they be repaired? Are they really needed at the end of a circuit?How do I replace 4 GFCI receptacles on the same circuit?Can I add a standard receptacle on a GFCI circuitAre non-GFCI outlets that are downstream of a GFCI outlet ground fault protected if they are fed from the GFCI outlet's load side?How can one whole group of outlets stop working, but the wires to one plug on one outlet are still hot?GFCI Outlets Wired Inline 2011 NECI have Direct tv plugged into a gfci protected receptacle. All of the receptacles on same circuit will go dead, but not trip the gfci. Why?How can I replace circuit breakers with GFCI breakers when it is a multiwire branch circuit?Should I add GFCI outlets in my bathrooms if those circuits already have a GFCI remote on them?How should I connect GFCI outlets where the wires loop over the existing outlet?Installing GFCI outlets in multiwire branch circuit
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GFCI outlets - can they be repaired? Are they really needed at the end of a circuit?
How do I replace 4 GFCI receptacles on the same circuit?Can I add a standard receptacle on a GFCI circuitAre non-GFCI outlets that are downstream of a GFCI outlet ground fault protected if they are fed from the GFCI outlet's load side?How can one whole group of outlets stop working, but the wires to one plug on one outlet are still hot?GFCI Outlets Wired Inline 2011 NECI have Direct tv plugged into a gfci protected receptacle. All of the receptacles on same circuit will go dead, but not trip the gfci. Why?How can I replace circuit breakers with GFCI breakers when it is a multiwire branch circuit?Should I add GFCI outlets in my bathrooms if those circuits already have a GFCI remote on them?How should I connect GFCI outlets where the wires loop over the existing outlet?Installing GFCI outlets in multiwire branch circuit
My house just went through a flood and there was 7 feet of muddy water on the first floor, so all the AC outlets were underwater. After the water receded, all the unprotected outlets continued to work just fine. But 4 out of 5 GFCI outlets no longer work and cannot be reset. Can GFCI outlets be taken apart and cleaned/fixed or is there something inside that fails permanently?
Also, all the GFCI outlets are at the ends of their lines. In other words, there is only one wire connected to each LINE terminal and no wires connected to the LOAD terminals. So they only seem to be protecting themselves. But if they failed once they got wet and all the non-GFCI outlets survived, can I just replace them with non-GFCI outlets?
electrical receptacle gfci
New contributor
|
show 1 more comment
My house just went through a flood and there was 7 feet of muddy water on the first floor, so all the AC outlets were underwater. After the water receded, all the unprotected outlets continued to work just fine. But 4 out of 5 GFCI outlets no longer work and cannot be reset. Can GFCI outlets be taken apart and cleaned/fixed or is there something inside that fails permanently?
Also, all the GFCI outlets are at the ends of their lines. In other words, there is only one wire connected to each LINE terminal and no wires connected to the LOAD terminals. So they only seem to be protecting themselves. But if they failed once they got wet and all the non-GFCI outlets survived, can I just replace them with non-GFCI outlets?
electrical receptacle gfci
New contributor
1
You should probably replace all the outlets that were underwater, whether or not they are working now.
– chepner
2 hours ago
All this flood remediation work should be covered by insurance, no? Cost shouldn't be a consideration here.
– Criggie
1 hour ago
Good point, Criggie. I will check with my landlady re: her policy coverage. Thanks!
– Patrick
1 hour ago
2
Wait a minute, landlady? Why are you repairing/replacing anything?
– Nuclear Wang
1 hour ago
Just to answer your question, I do repair and maintenance work here in exchange for reduced rent. Thanks to everyone but I think I've gotten lots of good suggestions and advice and have all the info I need at this point. You folks are the best! :-)
– Patrick
1 hour ago
|
show 1 more comment
My house just went through a flood and there was 7 feet of muddy water on the first floor, so all the AC outlets were underwater. After the water receded, all the unprotected outlets continued to work just fine. But 4 out of 5 GFCI outlets no longer work and cannot be reset. Can GFCI outlets be taken apart and cleaned/fixed or is there something inside that fails permanently?
Also, all the GFCI outlets are at the ends of their lines. In other words, there is only one wire connected to each LINE terminal and no wires connected to the LOAD terminals. So they only seem to be protecting themselves. But if they failed once they got wet and all the non-GFCI outlets survived, can I just replace them with non-GFCI outlets?
electrical receptacle gfci
New contributor
My house just went through a flood and there was 7 feet of muddy water on the first floor, so all the AC outlets were underwater. After the water receded, all the unprotected outlets continued to work just fine. But 4 out of 5 GFCI outlets no longer work and cannot be reset. Can GFCI outlets be taken apart and cleaned/fixed or is there something inside that fails permanently?
Also, all the GFCI outlets are at the ends of their lines. In other words, there is only one wire connected to each LINE terminal and no wires connected to the LOAD terminals. So they only seem to be protecting themselves. But if they failed once they got wet and all the non-GFCI outlets survived, can I just replace them with non-GFCI outlets?
electrical receptacle gfci
electrical receptacle gfci
New contributor
New contributor
edited 3 hours ago
Machavity
8,10621940
8,10621940
New contributor
asked 4 hours ago
PatrickPatrick
313
313
New contributor
New contributor
1
You should probably replace all the outlets that were underwater, whether or not they are working now.
– chepner
2 hours ago
All this flood remediation work should be covered by insurance, no? Cost shouldn't be a consideration here.
– Criggie
1 hour ago
Good point, Criggie. I will check with my landlady re: her policy coverage. Thanks!
– Patrick
1 hour ago
2
Wait a minute, landlady? Why are you repairing/replacing anything?
– Nuclear Wang
1 hour ago
Just to answer your question, I do repair and maintenance work here in exchange for reduced rent. Thanks to everyone but I think I've gotten lots of good suggestions and advice and have all the info I need at this point. You folks are the best! :-)
– Patrick
1 hour ago
|
show 1 more comment
1
You should probably replace all the outlets that were underwater, whether or not they are working now.
– chepner
2 hours ago
All this flood remediation work should be covered by insurance, no? Cost shouldn't be a consideration here.
– Criggie
1 hour ago
Good point, Criggie. I will check with my landlady re: her policy coverage. Thanks!
– Patrick
1 hour ago
2
Wait a minute, landlady? Why are you repairing/replacing anything?
– Nuclear Wang
1 hour ago
Just to answer your question, I do repair and maintenance work here in exchange for reduced rent. Thanks to everyone but I think I've gotten lots of good suggestions and advice and have all the info I need at this point. You folks are the best! :-)
– Patrick
1 hour ago
1
1
You should probably replace all the outlets that were underwater, whether or not they are working now.
– chepner
2 hours ago
You should probably replace all the outlets that were underwater, whether or not they are working now.
– chepner
2 hours ago
All this flood remediation work should be covered by insurance, no? Cost shouldn't be a consideration here.
– Criggie
1 hour ago
All this flood remediation work should be covered by insurance, no? Cost shouldn't be a consideration here.
– Criggie
1 hour ago
Good point, Criggie. I will check with my landlady re: her policy coverage. Thanks!
– Patrick
1 hour ago
Good point, Criggie. I will check with my landlady re: her policy coverage. Thanks!
– Patrick
1 hour ago
2
2
Wait a minute, landlady? Why are you repairing/replacing anything?
– Nuclear Wang
1 hour ago
Wait a minute, landlady? Why are you repairing/replacing anything?
– Nuclear Wang
1 hour ago
Just to answer your question, I do repair and maintenance work here in exchange for reduced rent. Thanks to everyone but I think I've gotten lots of good suggestions and advice and have all the info I need at this point. You folks are the best! :-)
– Patrick
1 hour ago
Just to answer your question, I do repair and maintenance work here in exchange for reduced rent. Thanks to everyone but I think I've gotten lots of good suggestions and advice and have all the info I need at this point. You folks are the best! :-)
– Patrick
1 hour ago
|
show 1 more comment
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
Not worth the risk
GFCI (whether in receptacles or breakers) are sensitive, life safety electronic items. As such, you don't want to mess with them. In fact, the whole purpose of the TEST/RESET buttons is because they can fail, even without obvious problems such as a flood. Newer models even test automatically.
Is it possible that there is simply still water inside the GFCIs so that disassemble, dry, reassemble will work? Yes. Is it a good idea to try that? ABSOLUTELY NOT!
New basic GFCI receptacles are in the $15 - $20 range (varies depending on brand, 15A vs. 20A and other features). Not as cheap as plain receptacles, but not that big in the grand scheme of things.
Presumably the GFCI receptacles were installed because the particular locations - basement, bathroom, laundry room, etc. required them. Assuming that is the case, replacement with plain receptacles would be a code violation. In most places you are not required to upgrade to GFCI unless you are making changes, but downgrading doesn't make sense and is likely a code violation.
Panel Alternative
An alternative is to install GFCI breakers in the main panel. This has the disadvantage that your panel may not have room for GFCI, or if you have a very old panel or fuses instead of breakers then that is not even an option. These breakers also typically cost more than "ordinary breaker" + "GFCI receptacle" so this change would be for practical reasons (e.g., protect outside circuits where a GFCI receptacle would be subject to severe weather) or as part of a panel upgrade. If you are looking at simple cost, replacing the GFCI receptacles where they are currently located will almost certainly be the way to go.
1
Thanks for the quick reply and helpful information about GFCI breakers, manassehkatz. There are 3 circuits involved so it sounds like just replacing the receptacles will be the way to go!
– Patrick
3 hours ago
1
@Patrick To be clear, even if it were 300 replacing would be the way to go. These devices aren't here for fun. Do it right. (And if you value your time at all, there's about a 0% chance doing anything but replacing broken receptacles would be cheaper.)
– GManNickG
50 mins ago
@GManNickG Correct. The # of circuits actually has no bearing on this equation. What could have bearing on the equation would be if you had 5 GFCI receptacles on a single circuit because nobody knew how to use LINE/LOAD correctly. Then replacing all 5 with a single GFCI breaker and 5 regular receptacles would likely be cheaper. But that's not a typical situation.
– manassehkatz
48 mins ago
Beware of GFCI breakers in panel. Computers don't like GFCI much.
– Joshua
25 mins ago
@Joshua Computers - or almost any properly functioning equipment - should not care whether it is on a GFCI or now. I'm sitting in my basement right now with my computer on a GFCI receptacle. Never a problem. There might be issues in some circumstances with equipment causing problems for AFCI, but even then computers should not be the problem.
– manassehkatz
20 mins ago
add a comment |
It's not practically feasible to clean and repair a GFCI outlet. They're fairly elaborate and sensitive gizmos, and they're not designed to be disassembled. Could you pull it off? Probably. Would I want to? Nope. Would it void the UL listing? Yup.
Whether GFCI outlets are needed at the end of a circuit depends almost entirely on where they're located. The fact that they're the last in a string of outlets is inconsequential. Are they in locations normally exposed to water, such as kitchens and bathrooms? If so, they need to stay.
Thanks for confirming my suspicians, isherwood, and for instructing me re only asking one question at a time. Much appreciated!
– Patrick
3 hours ago
What kinds of things void a UL listing/rating? Is there an official / insurance approved list somewhere?
– Xen2050
2 hours ago
1
"An authorized use of the UL Mark is the manufacturer’s declaration that the product was manufactured in accordance with all applicable requirements, and was in compliance with those requirements when it was shipped from the factory. If that product is modified after it leaves the factory, only a UL Field Evaluation can determine if the modified product complies with UL’s requirements." ul.com/code-authorities/resources/faqs-for-code-authorities Most GFCI outlets are made with tabs and rivets that can't be removed in a non-destructive manner.
– isherwood
2 hours ago
add a comment |
Can GFCI outlets be taken apart and cleaned/fixed or is there something inside that fails permanently?
A GFCI protects you by using a circuit board to watch the current flowing out of the hot and coming back into the neutral. If it reaches around 5mA imbalance, the breaker trips. You said yours were submerged in a flood. Just like your cell phone or computer, the flood ruined the circuitry inside. You cannot repair it yourself (assuming anyone can repair it).
Replacing them is not terribly expensive, and the newer ones have a self-test mechanism.
add a comment |
It's worse than that. The cables are done too.
Most houses are wired with Romex (NM) cable. That's not rated for getting wet. It has paper packing inside the sheath that just wicks water like crazy.
If the people who built the house were flood savvy, they built with UF cable, which is wet-rated and notably does not have that paper packing. It will be fine. Or they built with conduit and use THWN or THWN-2 individual wires. Those are also wet-rated and work fine even if the conduit is full of water, which is the normal expectation outdoors.
All the switches and outlets are done
Flood damage destroys everything, becuase it's not just water, it's a lot of crud too. Flood cars are finished. Some of that crud is electrically conductive, and it has gunked up each of the receptacles with it. Also, the crud is corrosive, so anything in that receptacle that could corrode, is right now.
For all those reasons (electronics are extra sensitive to corrosion), the GFCIs are all finished and must be replaced.
The service panel is also done
Service panels, even outdoor rated ones, are not rated to go for a swim. The crud is also inside the breakers laying conductive tracks and doing corrosion damage. These breakers will no longer be reliable. It might be possible to pull the buses out of the service panel and clean them, you'd have to see.
If you look at news footage of Houston's recent flood, you see lots of 2-storey apartments, 1st floors flooded out, and 2nd floors with the lights on and the A/C running. Flood-savvy builders take their power from overhead lines not underground, and put the service panel on the 2nd floor. They put 1st floor circuits on GFCI breakers so they don't electrify the water and drown people. A GFCI breaker protects the entire circuit and makes GFCI receptacles unnecessary.
All GFCI devices can protect downline loads if wired correctly. You are correct that a GFCI receptacle on the end of a circuit is a bit of a waste.
(Usually) you can't work on rental properties
Most areas have a law that only licensed electricians can do work on rental properties. That is to prevent landlords from doing shoddy work on the cheap and killing their tenants.
Check with your local authority (the department in City Hall you go to pull permits). They will tell you what a handyman can and cannot do with electrical in rental units. If they allow you to do anything at all, it would be limited to changing receptacles, switches or lights. GFCI receptacle changes could be included in that.
add a comment |
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4 Answers
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4 Answers
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Not worth the risk
GFCI (whether in receptacles or breakers) are sensitive, life safety electronic items. As such, you don't want to mess with them. In fact, the whole purpose of the TEST/RESET buttons is because they can fail, even without obvious problems such as a flood. Newer models even test automatically.
Is it possible that there is simply still water inside the GFCIs so that disassemble, dry, reassemble will work? Yes. Is it a good idea to try that? ABSOLUTELY NOT!
New basic GFCI receptacles are in the $15 - $20 range (varies depending on brand, 15A vs. 20A and other features). Not as cheap as plain receptacles, but not that big in the grand scheme of things.
Presumably the GFCI receptacles were installed because the particular locations - basement, bathroom, laundry room, etc. required them. Assuming that is the case, replacement with plain receptacles would be a code violation. In most places you are not required to upgrade to GFCI unless you are making changes, but downgrading doesn't make sense and is likely a code violation.
Panel Alternative
An alternative is to install GFCI breakers in the main panel. This has the disadvantage that your panel may not have room for GFCI, or if you have a very old panel or fuses instead of breakers then that is not even an option. These breakers also typically cost more than "ordinary breaker" + "GFCI receptacle" so this change would be for practical reasons (e.g., protect outside circuits where a GFCI receptacle would be subject to severe weather) or as part of a panel upgrade. If you are looking at simple cost, replacing the GFCI receptacles where they are currently located will almost certainly be the way to go.
1
Thanks for the quick reply and helpful information about GFCI breakers, manassehkatz. There are 3 circuits involved so it sounds like just replacing the receptacles will be the way to go!
– Patrick
3 hours ago
1
@Patrick To be clear, even if it were 300 replacing would be the way to go. These devices aren't here for fun. Do it right. (And if you value your time at all, there's about a 0% chance doing anything but replacing broken receptacles would be cheaper.)
– GManNickG
50 mins ago
@GManNickG Correct. The # of circuits actually has no bearing on this equation. What could have bearing on the equation would be if you had 5 GFCI receptacles on a single circuit because nobody knew how to use LINE/LOAD correctly. Then replacing all 5 with a single GFCI breaker and 5 regular receptacles would likely be cheaper. But that's not a typical situation.
– manassehkatz
48 mins ago
Beware of GFCI breakers in panel. Computers don't like GFCI much.
– Joshua
25 mins ago
@Joshua Computers - or almost any properly functioning equipment - should not care whether it is on a GFCI or now. I'm sitting in my basement right now with my computer on a GFCI receptacle. Never a problem. There might be issues in some circumstances with equipment causing problems for AFCI, but even then computers should not be the problem.
– manassehkatz
20 mins ago
add a comment |
Not worth the risk
GFCI (whether in receptacles or breakers) are sensitive, life safety electronic items. As such, you don't want to mess with them. In fact, the whole purpose of the TEST/RESET buttons is because they can fail, even without obvious problems such as a flood. Newer models even test automatically.
Is it possible that there is simply still water inside the GFCIs so that disassemble, dry, reassemble will work? Yes. Is it a good idea to try that? ABSOLUTELY NOT!
New basic GFCI receptacles are in the $15 - $20 range (varies depending on brand, 15A vs. 20A and other features). Not as cheap as plain receptacles, but not that big in the grand scheme of things.
Presumably the GFCI receptacles were installed because the particular locations - basement, bathroom, laundry room, etc. required them. Assuming that is the case, replacement with plain receptacles would be a code violation. In most places you are not required to upgrade to GFCI unless you are making changes, but downgrading doesn't make sense and is likely a code violation.
Panel Alternative
An alternative is to install GFCI breakers in the main panel. This has the disadvantage that your panel may not have room for GFCI, or if you have a very old panel or fuses instead of breakers then that is not even an option. These breakers also typically cost more than "ordinary breaker" + "GFCI receptacle" so this change would be for practical reasons (e.g., protect outside circuits where a GFCI receptacle would be subject to severe weather) or as part of a panel upgrade. If you are looking at simple cost, replacing the GFCI receptacles where they are currently located will almost certainly be the way to go.
1
Thanks for the quick reply and helpful information about GFCI breakers, manassehkatz. There are 3 circuits involved so it sounds like just replacing the receptacles will be the way to go!
– Patrick
3 hours ago
1
@Patrick To be clear, even if it were 300 replacing would be the way to go. These devices aren't here for fun. Do it right. (And if you value your time at all, there's about a 0% chance doing anything but replacing broken receptacles would be cheaper.)
– GManNickG
50 mins ago
@GManNickG Correct. The # of circuits actually has no bearing on this equation. What could have bearing on the equation would be if you had 5 GFCI receptacles on a single circuit because nobody knew how to use LINE/LOAD correctly. Then replacing all 5 with a single GFCI breaker and 5 regular receptacles would likely be cheaper. But that's not a typical situation.
– manassehkatz
48 mins ago
Beware of GFCI breakers in panel. Computers don't like GFCI much.
– Joshua
25 mins ago
@Joshua Computers - or almost any properly functioning equipment - should not care whether it is on a GFCI or now. I'm sitting in my basement right now with my computer on a GFCI receptacle. Never a problem. There might be issues in some circumstances with equipment causing problems for AFCI, but even then computers should not be the problem.
– manassehkatz
20 mins ago
add a comment |
Not worth the risk
GFCI (whether in receptacles or breakers) are sensitive, life safety electronic items. As such, you don't want to mess with them. In fact, the whole purpose of the TEST/RESET buttons is because they can fail, even without obvious problems such as a flood. Newer models even test automatically.
Is it possible that there is simply still water inside the GFCIs so that disassemble, dry, reassemble will work? Yes. Is it a good idea to try that? ABSOLUTELY NOT!
New basic GFCI receptacles are in the $15 - $20 range (varies depending on brand, 15A vs. 20A and other features). Not as cheap as plain receptacles, but not that big in the grand scheme of things.
Presumably the GFCI receptacles were installed because the particular locations - basement, bathroom, laundry room, etc. required them. Assuming that is the case, replacement with plain receptacles would be a code violation. In most places you are not required to upgrade to GFCI unless you are making changes, but downgrading doesn't make sense and is likely a code violation.
Panel Alternative
An alternative is to install GFCI breakers in the main panel. This has the disadvantage that your panel may not have room for GFCI, or if you have a very old panel or fuses instead of breakers then that is not even an option. These breakers also typically cost more than "ordinary breaker" + "GFCI receptacle" so this change would be for practical reasons (e.g., protect outside circuits where a GFCI receptacle would be subject to severe weather) or as part of a panel upgrade. If you are looking at simple cost, replacing the GFCI receptacles where they are currently located will almost certainly be the way to go.
Not worth the risk
GFCI (whether in receptacles or breakers) are sensitive, life safety electronic items. As such, you don't want to mess with them. In fact, the whole purpose of the TEST/RESET buttons is because they can fail, even without obvious problems such as a flood. Newer models even test automatically.
Is it possible that there is simply still water inside the GFCIs so that disassemble, dry, reassemble will work? Yes. Is it a good idea to try that? ABSOLUTELY NOT!
New basic GFCI receptacles are in the $15 - $20 range (varies depending on brand, 15A vs. 20A and other features). Not as cheap as plain receptacles, but not that big in the grand scheme of things.
Presumably the GFCI receptacles were installed because the particular locations - basement, bathroom, laundry room, etc. required them. Assuming that is the case, replacement with plain receptacles would be a code violation. In most places you are not required to upgrade to GFCI unless you are making changes, but downgrading doesn't make sense and is likely a code violation.
Panel Alternative
An alternative is to install GFCI breakers in the main panel. This has the disadvantage that your panel may not have room for GFCI, or if you have a very old panel or fuses instead of breakers then that is not even an option. These breakers also typically cost more than "ordinary breaker" + "GFCI receptacle" so this change would be for practical reasons (e.g., protect outside circuits where a GFCI receptacle would be subject to severe weather) or as part of a panel upgrade. If you are looking at simple cost, replacing the GFCI receptacles where they are currently located will almost certainly be the way to go.
answered 3 hours ago
manassehkatzmanassehkatz
10.3k1338
10.3k1338
1
Thanks for the quick reply and helpful information about GFCI breakers, manassehkatz. There are 3 circuits involved so it sounds like just replacing the receptacles will be the way to go!
– Patrick
3 hours ago
1
@Patrick To be clear, even if it were 300 replacing would be the way to go. These devices aren't here for fun. Do it right. (And if you value your time at all, there's about a 0% chance doing anything but replacing broken receptacles would be cheaper.)
– GManNickG
50 mins ago
@GManNickG Correct. The # of circuits actually has no bearing on this equation. What could have bearing on the equation would be if you had 5 GFCI receptacles on a single circuit because nobody knew how to use LINE/LOAD correctly. Then replacing all 5 with a single GFCI breaker and 5 regular receptacles would likely be cheaper. But that's not a typical situation.
– manassehkatz
48 mins ago
Beware of GFCI breakers in panel. Computers don't like GFCI much.
– Joshua
25 mins ago
@Joshua Computers - or almost any properly functioning equipment - should not care whether it is on a GFCI or now. I'm sitting in my basement right now with my computer on a GFCI receptacle. Never a problem. There might be issues in some circumstances with equipment causing problems for AFCI, but even then computers should not be the problem.
– manassehkatz
20 mins ago
add a comment |
1
Thanks for the quick reply and helpful information about GFCI breakers, manassehkatz. There are 3 circuits involved so it sounds like just replacing the receptacles will be the way to go!
– Patrick
3 hours ago
1
@Patrick To be clear, even if it were 300 replacing would be the way to go. These devices aren't here for fun. Do it right. (And if you value your time at all, there's about a 0% chance doing anything but replacing broken receptacles would be cheaper.)
– GManNickG
50 mins ago
@GManNickG Correct. The # of circuits actually has no bearing on this equation. What could have bearing on the equation would be if you had 5 GFCI receptacles on a single circuit because nobody knew how to use LINE/LOAD correctly. Then replacing all 5 with a single GFCI breaker and 5 regular receptacles would likely be cheaper. But that's not a typical situation.
– manassehkatz
48 mins ago
Beware of GFCI breakers in panel. Computers don't like GFCI much.
– Joshua
25 mins ago
@Joshua Computers - or almost any properly functioning equipment - should not care whether it is on a GFCI or now. I'm sitting in my basement right now with my computer on a GFCI receptacle. Never a problem. There might be issues in some circumstances with equipment causing problems for AFCI, but even then computers should not be the problem.
– manassehkatz
20 mins ago
1
1
Thanks for the quick reply and helpful information about GFCI breakers, manassehkatz. There are 3 circuits involved so it sounds like just replacing the receptacles will be the way to go!
– Patrick
3 hours ago
Thanks for the quick reply and helpful information about GFCI breakers, manassehkatz. There are 3 circuits involved so it sounds like just replacing the receptacles will be the way to go!
– Patrick
3 hours ago
1
1
@Patrick To be clear, even if it were 300 replacing would be the way to go. These devices aren't here for fun. Do it right. (And if you value your time at all, there's about a 0% chance doing anything but replacing broken receptacles would be cheaper.)
– GManNickG
50 mins ago
@Patrick To be clear, even if it were 300 replacing would be the way to go. These devices aren't here for fun. Do it right. (And if you value your time at all, there's about a 0% chance doing anything but replacing broken receptacles would be cheaper.)
– GManNickG
50 mins ago
@GManNickG Correct. The # of circuits actually has no bearing on this equation. What could have bearing on the equation would be if you had 5 GFCI receptacles on a single circuit because nobody knew how to use LINE/LOAD correctly. Then replacing all 5 with a single GFCI breaker and 5 regular receptacles would likely be cheaper. But that's not a typical situation.
– manassehkatz
48 mins ago
@GManNickG Correct. The # of circuits actually has no bearing on this equation. What could have bearing on the equation would be if you had 5 GFCI receptacles on a single circuit because nobody knew how to use LINE/LOAD correctly. Then replacing all 5 with a single GFCI breaker and 5 regular receptacles would likely be cheaper. But that's not a typical situation.
– manassehkatz
48 mins ago
Beware of GFCI breakers in panel. Computers don't like GFCI much.
– Joshua
25 mins ago
Beware of GFCI breakers in panel. Computers don't like GFCI much.
– Joshua
25 mins ago
@Joshua Computers - or almost any properly functioning equipment - should not care whether it is on a GFCI or now. I'm sitting in my basement right now with my computer on a GFCI receptacle. Never a problem. There might be issues in some circumstances with equipment causing problems for AFCI, but even then computers should not be the problem.
– manassehkatz
20 mins ago
@Joshua Computers - or almost any properly functioning equipment - should not care whether it is on a GFCI or now. I'm sitting in my basement right now with my computer on a GFCI receptacle. Never a problem. There might be issues in some circumstances with equipment causing problems for AFCI, but even then computers should not be the problem.
– manassehkatz
20 mins ago
add a comment |
It's not practically feasible to clean and repair a GFCI outlet. They're fairly elaborate and sensitive gizmos, and they're not designed to be disassembled. Could you pull it off? Probably. Would I want to? Nope. Would it void the UL listing? Yup.
Whether GFCI outlets are needed at the end of a circuit depends almost entirely on where they're located. The fact that they're the last in a string of outlets is inconsequential. Are they in locations normally exposed to water, such as kitchens and bathrooms? If so, they need to stay.
Thanks for confirming my suspicians, isherwood, and for instructing me re only asking one question at a time. Much appreciated!
– Patrick
3 hours ago
What kinds of things void a UL listing/rating? Is there an official / insurance approved list somewhere?
– Xen2050
2 hours ago
1
"An authorized use of the UL Mark is the manufacturer’s declaration that the product was manufactured in accordance with all applicable requirements, and was in compliance with those requirements when it was shipped from the factory. If that product is modified after it leaves the factory, only a UL Field Evaluation can determine if the modified product complies with UL’s requirements." ul.com/code-authorities/resources/faqs-for-code-authorities Most GFCI outlets are made with tabs and rivets that can't be removed in a non-destructive manner.
– isherwood
2 hours ago
add a comment |
It's not practically feasible to clean and repair a GFCI outlet. They're fairly elaborate and sensitive gizmos, and they're not designed to be disassembled. Could you pull it off? Probably. Would I want to? Nope. Would it void the UL listing? Yup.
Whether GFCI outlets are needed at the end of a circuit depends almost entirely on where they're located. The fact that they're the last in a string of outlets is inconsequential. Are they in locations normally exposed to water, such as kitchens and bathrooms? If so, they need to stay.
Thanks for confirming my suspicians, isherwood, and for instructing me re only asking one question at a time. Much appreciated!
– Patrick
3 hours ago
What kinds of things void a UL listing/rating? Is there an official / insurance approved list somewhere?
– Xen2050
2 hours ago
1
"An authorized use of the UL Mark is the manufacturer’s declaration that the product was manufactured in accordance with all applicable requirements, and was in compliance with those requirements when it was shipped from the factory. If that product is modified after it leaves the factory, only a UL Field Evaluation can determine if the modified product complies with UL’s requirements." ul.com/code-authorities/resources/faqs-for-code-authorities Most GFCI outlets are made with tabs and rivets that can't be removed in a non-destructive manner.
– isherwood
2 hours ago
add a comment |
It's not practically feasible to clean and repair a GFCI outlet. They're fairly elaborate and sensitive gizmos, and they're not designed to be disassembled. Could you pull it off? Probably. Would I want to? Nope. Would it void the UL listing? Yup.
Whether GFCI outlets are needed at the end of a circuit depends almost entirely on where they're located. The fact that they're the last in a string of outlets is inconsequential. Are they in locations normally exposed to water, such as kitchens and bathrooms? If so, they need to stay.
It's not practically feasible to clean and repair a GFCI outlet. They're fairly elaborate and sensitive gizmos, and they're not designed to be disassembled. Could you pull it off? Probably. Would I want to? Nope. Would it void the UL listing? Yup.
Whether GFCI outlets are needed at the end of a circuit depends almost entirely on where they're located. The fact that they're the last in a string of outlets is inconsequential. Are they in locations normally exposed to water, such as kitchens and bathrooms? If so, they need to stay.
edited 1 hour ago
answered 3 hours ago
isherwoodisherwood
51k460130
51k460130
Thanks for confirming my suspicians, isherwood, and for instructing me re only asking one question at a time. Much appreciated!
– Patrick
3 hours ago
What kinds of things void a UL listing/rating? Is there an official / insurance approved list somewhere?
– Xen2050
2 hours ago
1
"An authorized use of the UL Mark is the manufacturer’s declaration that the product was manufactured in accordance with all applicable requirements, and was in compliance with those requirements when it was shipped from the factory. If that product is modified after it leaves the factory, only a UL Field Evaluation can determine if the modified product complies with UL’s requirements." ul.com/code-authorities/resources/faqs-for-code-authorities Most GFCI outlets are made with tabs and rivets that can't be removed in a non-destructive manner.
– isherwood
2 hours ago
add a comment |
Thanks for confirming my suspicians, isherwood, and for instructing me re only asking one question at a time. Much appreciated!
– Patrick
3 hours ago
What kinds of things void a UL listing/rating? Is there an official / insurance approved list somewhere?
– Xen2050
2 hours ago
1
"An authorized use of the UL Mark is the manufacturer’s declaration that the product was manufactured in accordance with all applicable requirements, and was in compliance with those requirements when it was shipped from the factory. If that product is modified after it leaves the factory, only a UL Field Evaluation can determine if the modified product complies with UL’s requirements." ul.com/code-authorities/resources/faqs-for-code-authorities Most GFCI outlets are made with tabs and rivets that can't be removed in a non-destructive manner.
– isherwood
2 hours ago
Thanks for confirming my suspicians, isherwood, and for instructing me re only asking one question at a time. Much appreciated!
– Patrick
3 hours ago
Thanks for confirming my suspicians, isherwood, and for instructing me re only asking one question at a time. Much appreciated!
– Patrick
3 hours ago
What kinds of things void a UL listing/rating? Is there an official / insurance approved list somewhere?
– Xen2050
2 hours ago
What kinds of things void a UL listing/rating? Is there an official / insurance approved list somewhere?
– Xen2050
2 hours ago
1
1
"An authorized use of the UL Mark is the manufacturer’s declaration that the product was manufactured in accordance with all applicable requirements, and was in compliance with those requirements when it was shipped from the factory. If that product is modified after it leaves the factory, only a UL Field Evaluation can determine if the modified product complies with UL’s requirements." ul.com/code-authorities/resources/faqs-for-code-authorities Most GFCI outlets are made with tabs and rivets that can't be removed in a non-destructive manner.
– isherwood
2 hours ago
"An authorized use of the UL Mark is the manufacturer’s declaration that the product was manufactured in accordance with all applicable requirements, and was in compliance with those requirements when it was shipped from the factory. If that product is modified after it leaves the factory, only a UL Field Evaluation can determine if the modified product complies with UL’s requirements." ul.com/code-authorities/resources/faqs-for-code-authorities Most GFCI outlets are made with tabs and rivets that can't be removed in a non-destructive manner.
– isherwood
2 hours ago
add a comment |
Can GFCI outlets be taken apart and cleaned/fixed or is there something inside that fails permanently?
A GFCI protects you by using a circuit board to watch the current flowing out of the hot and coming back into the neutral. If it reaches around 5mA imbalance, the breaker trips. You said yours were submerged in a flood. Just like your cell phone or computer, the flood ruined the circuitry inside. You cannot repair it yourself (assuming anyone can repair it).
Replacing them is not terribly expensive, and the newer ones have a self-test mechanism.
add a comment |
Can GFCI outlets be taken apart and cleaned/fixed or is there something inside that fails permanently?
A GFCI protects you by using a circuit board to watch the current flowing out of the hot and coming back into the neutral. If it reaches around 5mA imbalance, the breaker trips. You said yours were submerged in a flood. Just like your cell phone or computer, the flood ruined the circuitry inside. You cannot repair it yourself (assuming anyone can repair it).
Replacing them is not terribly expensive, and the newer ones have a self-test mechanism.
add a comment |
Can GFCI outlets be taken apart and cleaned/fixed or is there something inside that fails permanently?
A GFCI protects you by using a circuit board to watch the current flowing out of the hot and coming back into the neutral. If it reaches around 5mA imbalance, the breaker trips. You said yours were submerged in a flood. Just like your cell phone or computer, the flood ruined the circuitry inside. You cannot repair it yourself (assuming anyone can repair it).
Replacing them is not terribly expensive, and the newer ones have a self-test mechanism.
Can GFCI outlets be taken apart and cleaned/fixed or is there something inside that fails permanently?
A GFCI protects you by using a circuit board to watch the current flowing out of the hot and coming back into the neutral. If it reaches around 5mA imbalance, the breaker trips. You said yours were submerged in a flood. Just like your cell phone or computer, the flood ruined the circuitry inside. You cannot repair it yourself (assuming anyone can repair it).
Replacing them is not terribly expensive, and the newer ones have a self-test mechanism.
answered 3 hours ago
MachavityMachavity
8,10621940
8,10621940
add a comment |
add a comment |
It's worse than that. The cables are done too.
Most houses are wired with Romex (NM) cable. That's not rated for getting wet. It has paper packing inside the sheath that just wicks water like crazy.
If the people who built the house were flood savvy, they built with UF cable, which is wet-rated and notably does not have that paper packing. It will be fine. Or they built with conduit and use THWN or THWN-2 individual wires. Those are also wet-rated and work fine even if the conduit is full of water, which is the normal expectation outdoors.
All the switches and outlets are done
Flood damage destroys everything, becuase it's not just water, it's a lot of crud too. Flood cars are finished. Some of that crud is electrically conductive, and it has gunked up each of the receptacles with it. Also, the crud is corrosive, so anything in that receptacle that could corrode, is right now.
For all those reasons (electronics are extra sensitive to corrosion), the GFCIs are all finished and must be replaced.
The service panel is also done
Service panels, even outdoor rated ones, are not rated to go for a swim. The crud is also inside the breakers laying conductive tracks and doing corrosion damage. These breakers will no longer be reliable. It might be possible to pull the buses out of the service panel and clean them, you'd have to see.
If you look at news footage of Houston's recent flood, you see lots of 2-storey apartments, 1st floors flooded out, and 2nd floors with the lights on and the A/C running. Flood-savvy builders take their power from overhead lines not underground, and put the service panel on the 2nd floor. They put 1st floor circuits on GFCI breakers so they don't electrify the water and drown people. A GFCI breaker protects the entire circuit and makes GFCI receptacles unnecessary.
All GFCI devices can protect downline loads if wired correctly. You are correct that a GFCI receptacle on the end of a circuit is a bit of a waste.
(Usually) you can't work on rental properties
Most areas have a law that only licensed electricians can do work on rental properties. That is to prevent landlords from doing shoddy work on the cheap and killing their tenants.
Check with your local authority (the department in City Hall you go to pull permits). They will tell you what a handyman can and cannot do with electrical in rental units. If they allow you to do anything at all, it would be limited to changing receptacles, switches or lights. GFCI receptacle changes could be included in that.
add a comment |
It's worse than that. The cables are done too.
Most houses are wired with Romex (NM) cable. That's not rated for getting wet. It has paper packing inside the sheath that just wicks water like crazy.
If the people who built the house were flood savvy, they built with UF cable, which is wet-rated and notably does not have that paper packing. It will be fine. Or they built with conduit and use THWN or THWN-2 individual wires. Those are also wet-rated and work fine even if the conduit is full of water, which is the normal expectation outdoors.
All the switches and outlets are done
Flood damage destroys everything, becuase it's not just water, it's a lot of crud too. Flood cars are finished. Some of that crud is electrically conductive, and it has gunked up each of the receptacles with it. Also, the crud is corrosive, so anything in that receptacle that could corrode, is right now.
For all those reasons (electronics are extra sensitive to corrosion), the GFCIs are all finished and must be replaced.
The service panel is also done
Service panels, even outdoor rated ones, are not rated to go for a swim. The crud is also inside the breakers laying conductive tracks and doing corrosion damage. These breakers will no longer be reliable. It might be possible to pull the buses out of the service panel and clean them, you'd have to see.
If you look at news footage of Houston's recent flood, you see lots of 2-storey apartments, 1st floors flooded out, and 2nd floors with the lights on and the A/C running. Flood-savvy builders take their power from overhead lines not underground, and put the service panel on the 2nd floor. They put 1st floor circuits on GFCI breakers so they don't electrify the water and drown people. A GFCI breaker protects the entire circuit and makes GFCI receptacles unnecessary.
All GFCI devices can protect downline loads if wired correctly. You are correct that a GFCI receptacle on the end of a circuit is a bit of a waste.
(Usually) you can't work on rental properties
Most areas have a law that only licensed electricians can do work on rental properties. That is to prevent landlords from doing shoddy work on the cheap and killing their tenants.
Check with your local authority (the department in City Hall you go to pull permits). They will tell you what a handyman can and cannot do with electrical in rental units. If they allow you to do anything at all, it would be limited to changing receptacles, switches or lights. GFCI receptacle changes could be included in that.
add a comment |
It's worse than that. The cables are done too.
Most houses are wired with Romex (NM) cable. That's not rated for getting wet. It has paper packing inside the sheath that just wicks water like crazy.
If the people who built the house were flood savvy, they built with UF cable, which is wet-rated and notably does not have that paper packing. It will be fine. Or they built with conduit and use THWN or THWN-2 individual wires. Those are also wet-rated and work fine even if the conduit is full of water, which is the normal expectation outdoors.
All the switches and outlets are done
Flood damage destroys everything, becuase it's not just water, it's a lot of crud too. Flood cars are finished. Some of that crud is electrically conductive, and it has gunked up each of the receptacles with it. Also, the crud is corrosive, so anything in that receptacle that could corrode, is right now.
For all those reasons (electronics are extra sensitive to corrosion), the GFCIs are all finished and must be replaced.
The service panel is also done
Service panels, even outdoor rated ones, are not rated to go for a swim. The crud is also inside the breakers laying conductive tracks and doing corrosion damage. These breakers will no longer be reliable. It might be possible to pull the buses out of the service panel and clean them, you'd have to see.
If you look at news footage of Houston's recent flood, you see lots of 2-storey apartments, 1st floors flooded out, and 2nd floors with the lights on and the A/C running. Flood-savvy builders take their power from overhead lines not underground, and put the service panel on the 2nd floor. They put 1st floor circuits on GFCI breakers so they don't electrify the water and drown people. A GFCI breaker protects the entire circuit and makes GFCI receptacles unnecessary.
All GFCI devices can protect downline loads if wired correctly. You are correct that a GFCI receptacle on the end of a circuit is a bit of a waste.
(Usually) you can't work on rental properties
Most areas have a law that only licensed electricians can do work on rental properties. That is to prevent landlords from doing shoddy work on the cheap and killing their tenants.
Check with your local authority (the department in City Hall you go to pull permits). They will tell you what a handyman can and cannot do with electrical in rental units. If they allow you to do anything at all, it would be limited to changing receptacles, switches or lights. GFCI receptacle changes could be included in that.
It's worse than that. The cables are done too.
Most houses are wired with Romex (NM) cable. That's not rated for getting wet. It has paper packing inside the sheath that just wicks water like crazy.
If the people who built the house were flood savvy, they built with UF cable, which is wet-rated and notably does not have that paper packing. It will be fine. Or they built with conduit and use THWN or THWN-2 individual wires. Those are also wet-rated and work fine even if the conduit is full of water, which is the normal expectation outdoors.
All the switches and outlets are done
Flood damage destroys everything, becuase it's not just water, it's a lot of crud too. Flood cars are finished. Some of that crud is electrically conductive, and it has gunked up each of the receptacles with it. Also, the crud is corrosive, so anything in that receptacle that could corrode, is right now.
For all those reasons (electronics are extra sensitive to corrosion), the GFCIs are all finished and must be replaced.
The service panel is also done
Service panels, even outdoor rated ones, are not rated to go for a swim. The crud is also inside the breakers laying conductive tracks and doing corrosion damage. These breakers will no longer be reliable. It might be possible to pull the buses out of the service panel and clean them, you'd have to see.
If you look at news footage of Houston's recent flood, you see lots of 2-storey apartments, 1st floors flooded out, and 2nd floors with the lights on and the A/C running. Flood-savvy builders take their power from overhead lines not underground, and put the service panel on the 2nd floor. They put 1st floor circuits on GFCI breakers so they don't electrify the water and drown people. A GFCI breaker protects the entire circuit and makes GFCI receptacles unnecessary.
All GFCI devices can protect downline loads if wired correctly. You are correct that a GFCI receptacle on the end of a circuit is a bit of a waste.
(Usually) you can't work on rental properties
Most areas have a law that only licensed electricians can do work on rental properties. That is to prevent landlords from doing shoddy work on the cheap and killing their tenants.
Check with your local authority (the department in City Hall you go to pull permits). They will tell you what a handyman can and cannot do with electrical in rental units. If they allow you to do anything at all, it would be limited to changing receptacles, switches or lights. GFCI receptacle changes could be included in that.
answered 23 mins ago
HarperHarper
75.2k449150
75.2k449150
add a comment |
add a comment |
Patrick is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Patrick is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Patrick is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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1
You should probably replace all the outlets that were underwater, whether or not they are working now.
– chepner
2 hours ago
All this flood remediation work should be covered by insurance, no? Cost shouldn't be a consideration here.
– Criggie
1 hour ago
Good point, Criggie. I will check with my landlady re: her policy coverage. Thanks!
– Patrick
1 hour ago
2
Wait a minute, landlady? Why are you repairing/replacing anything?
– Nuclear Wang
1 hour ago
Just to answer your question, I do repair and maintenance work here in exchange for reduced rent. Thanks to everyone but I think I've gotten lots of good suggestions and advice and have all the info I need at this point. You folks are the best! :-)
– Patrick
1 hour ago