Why was the shrink from 8″ made only to 5.25″ and not smaller (4″ or less)Why did 3.5" floppies win?Why were 5.25“ floppy drives cheaper than 8”?Why did 3.5" floppies win?Why were 5.25“ floppy drives cheaper than 8”?
Pact of Blade Warlock with Dancing Blade
Why can't we say "I have been having a dog"?
How to show a landlord what we have in savings?
Car headlights in a world without electricity
Placement of More Information/Help Icon button for Radio Buttons
My singleton can be called multiple times
What was Prahlada's age when his father was killed?
Knowledge-based authentication using Domain-driven Design in C#
How do conventional missiles fly?
Why do I get negative height?
Is it "common practice in Fourier transform spectroscopy to multiply the measured interferogram by an apodizing function"? If so, why?
My ex-girlfriend uses my Apple ID to login to her iPad, do I have to give her my Apple ID password to reset it?
Do parry bonuses stack?
What is this scratchy sound on the acoustic guitar called?
Are British MPs missing the point, with these 'Indicative Votes'?
How to aggregate categorical data in R?
Machine learning testing data
Is it possible to create a QR code using text?
How could sorcerers who are able to produce/manipulate almost all forms of energy communicate over large distances?
Unlock My Phone! February 2018
Remove border from last row
How to calculate the right interval for a timelapse on a boat
Avoiding the "not like other girls" trope?
Blending or harmonizing
Why was the shrink from 8″ made only to 5.25″ and not smaller (4″ or less)
Why did 3.5" floppies win?Why were 5.25“ floppy drives cheaper than 8”?Why did 3.5" floppies win?Why were 5.25“ floppy drives cheaper than 8”?
Answers and comments to Why were 5.25" floppy drives cheaper than 8"? suggest some reasons why floppy disks moved from 8" to 5.25"; basically it seems the smaller size reduced engineering difficulty and thus cost in a number of ways.
Given that, why not make the drives even cheaper by jumping straight to an even smaller form factor such as the 3.5" that was eventually settled on?
I can think of three possible reasons:
Reduced size means reduced capacity! 5.25" was a trade-off between the desire to make the drives smaller which would indeed reduce cost, and the desire to preserve capacity.
On the contrary, beyond a certain point, miniaturization becomes difficult and adds cost. With late seventies technology, 5.25" was the optimum balance between the cost of a larger mechanism and the cost of a smaller one.
As it turns out, smaller was indeed cheaper, but that would've been too much of a leap into the unknown at the time, for an industry that as yet had no experience with disks smaller than eight inches.
Was it for one of those three reasons, or something else?
floppy-disk
|
show 1 more comment
Answers and comments to Why were 5.25" floppy drives cheaper than 8"? suggest some reasons why floppy disks moved from 8" to 5.25"; basically it seems the smaller size reduced engineering difficulty and thus cost in a number of ways.
Given that, why not make the drives even cheaper by jumping straight to an even smaller form factor such as the 3.5" that was eventually settled on?
I can think of three possible reasons:
Reduced size means reduced capacity! 5.25" was a trade-off between the desire to make the drives smaller which would indeed reduce cost, and the desire to preserve capacity.
On the contrary, beyond a certain point, miniaturization becomes difficult and adds cost. With late seventies technology, 5.25" was the optimum balance between the cost of a larger mechanism and the cost of a smaller one.
As it turns out, smaller was indeed cheaper, but that would've been too much of a leap into the unknown at the time, for an industry that as yet had no experience with disks smaller than eight inches.
Was it for one of those three reasons, or something else?
floppy-disk
2
Using a quick geometric calculation, the capacity of a 3.5" floppy using the existing technology would have been about 70 kbytes. Perhaps the reduced maximum linear velocity of the smaller radius would have allowed for slightly denser data, but capacity still would have been quite small.
– RichF
6 hours ago
Companies don't exist to (only) produce nice technology - their first and foremost purpose is - to make money. And if you have developed something that allows you to make money, you first try to sell what you have before developing "something better".
– tofro
6 hours ago
This seams to be a duplicate to your own (wrongful closed) question about the move to 3.5" diskettes. retrocomputing.stackexchange.com/questions/8794/…
– Raffzahn
5 hours ago
@Raffzahn No. That one was, given the transition from 5.x to 3.x, why the exact 3.5" format we ended up with. This one is why the transition period of 5.x instead of jumping all the way to 3.x to begin with.
– rwallace
5 hours ago
1
@Raffzahn 'why not make the drives even cheaper by jumping straight to an even smaller form factor such as the 3.5" that was eventually settled on' seems pretty clear to me, though if anyone has a better idea, suggested edits welcome.
– rwallace
5 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
Answers and comments to Why were 5.25" floppy drives cheaper than 8"? suggest some reasons why floppy disks moved from 8" to 5.25"; basically it seems the smaller size reduced engineering difficulty and thus cost in a number of ways.
Given that, why not make the drives even cheaper by jumping straight to an even smaller form factor such as the 3.5" that was eventually settled on?
I can think of three possible reasons:
Reduced size means reduced capacity! 5.25" was a trade-off between the desire to make the drives smaller which would indeed reduce cost, and the desire to preserve capacity.
On the contrary, beyond a certain point, miniaturization becomes difficult and adds cost. With late seventies technology, 5.25" was the optimum balance between the cost of a larger mechanism and the cost of a smaller one.
As it turns out, smaller was indeed cheaper, but that would've been too much of a leap into the unknown at the time, for an industry that as yet had no experience with disks smaller than eight inches.
Was it for one of those three reasons, or something else?
floppy-disk
Answers and comments to Why were 5.25" floppy drives cheaper than 8"? suggest some reasons why floppy disks moved from 8" to 5.25"; basically it seems the smaller size reduced engineering difficulty and thus cost in a number of ways.
Given that, why not make the drives even cheaper by jumping straight to an even smaller form factor such as the 3.5" that was eventually settled on?
I can think of three possible reasons:
Reduced size means reduced capacity! 5.25" was a trade-off between the desire to make the drives smaller which would indeed reduce cost, and the desire to preserve capacity.
On the contrary, beyond a certain point, miniaturization becomes difficult and adds cost. With late seventies technology, 5.25" was the optimum balance between the cost of a larger mechanism and the cost of a smaller one.
As it turns out, smaller was indeed cheaper, but that would've been too much of a leap into the unknown at the time, for an industry that as yet had no experience with disks smaller than eight inches.
Was it for one of those three reasons, or something else?
floppy-disk
floppy-disk
edited 3 hours ago
Michael Piefel
1033
1033
asked 6 hours ago
rwallacerwallace
10.4k451153
10.4k451153
2
Using a quick geometric calculation, the capacity of a 3.5" floppy using the existing technology would have been about 70 kbytes. Perhaps the reduced maximum linear velocity of the smaller radius would have allowed for slightly denser data, but capacity still would have been quite small.
– RichF
6 hours ago
Companies don't exist to (only) produce nice technology - their first and foremost purpose is - to make money. And if you have developed something that allows you to make money, you first try to sell what you have before developing "something better".
– tofro
6 hours ago
This seams to be a duplicate to your own (wrongful closed) question about the move to 3.5" diskettes. retrocomputing.stackexchange.com/questions/8794/…
– Raffzahn
5 hours ago
@Raffzahn No. That one was, given the transition from 5.x to 3.x, why the exact 3.5" format we ended up with. This one is why the transition period of 5.x instead of jumping all the way to 3.x to begin with.
– rwallace
5 hours ago
1
@Raffzahn 'why not make the drives even cheaper by jumping straight to an even smaller form factor such as the 3.5" that was eventually settled on' seems pretty clear to me, though if anyone has a better idea, suggested edits welcome.
– rwallace
5 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
2
Using a quick geometric calculation, the capacity of a 3.5" floppy using the existing technology would have been about 70 kbytes. Perhaps the reduced maximum linear velocity of the smaller radius would have allowed for slightly denser data, but capacity still would have been quite small.
– RichF
6 hours ago
Companies don't exist to (only) produce nice technology - their first and foremost purpose is - to make money. And if you have developed something that allows you to make money, you first try to sell what you have before developing "something better".
– tofro
6 hours ago
This seams to be a duplicate to your own (wrongful closed) question about the move to 3.5" diskettes. retrocomputing.stackexchange.com/questions/8794/…
– Raffzahn
5 hours ago
@Raffzahn No. That one was, given the transition from 5.x to 3.x, why the exact 3.5" format we ended up with. This one is why the transition period of 5.x instead of jumping all the way to 3.x to begin with.
– rwallace
5 hours ago
1
@Raffzahn 'why not make the drives even cheaper by jumping straight to an even smaller form factor such as the 3.5" that was eventually settled on' seems pretty clear to me, though if anyone has a better idea, suggested edits welcome.
– rwallace
5 hours ago
2
2
Using a quick geometric calculation, the capacity of a 3.5" floppy using the existing technology would have been about 70 kbytes. Perhaps the reduced maximum linear velocity of the smaller radius would have allowed for slightly denser data, but capacity still would have been quite small.
– RichF
6 hours ago
Using a quick geometric calculation, the capacity of a 3.5" floppy using the existing technology would have been about 70 kbytes. Perhaps the reduced maximum linear velocity of the smaller radius would have allowed for slightly denser data, but capacity still would have been quite small.
– RichF
6 hours ago
Companies don't exist to (only) produce nice technology - their first and foremost purpose is - to make money. And if you have developed something that allows you to make money, you first try to sell what you have before developing "something better".
– tofro
6 hours ago
Companies don't exist to (only) produce nice technology - their first and foremost purpose is - to make money. And if you have developed something that allows you to make money, you first try to sell what you have before developing "something better".
– tofro
6 hours ago
This seams to be a duplicate to your own (wrongful closed) question about the move to 3.5" diskettes. retrocomputing.stackexchange.com/questions/8794/…
– Raffzahn
5 hours ago
This seams to be a duplicate to your own (wrongful closed) question about the move to 3.5" diskettes. retrocomputing.stackexchange.com/questions/8794/…
– Raffzahn
5 hours ago
@Raffzahn No. That one was, given the transition from 5.x to 3.x, why the exact 3.5" format we ended up with. This one is why the transition period of 5.x instead of jumping all the way to 3.x to begin with.
– rwallace
5 hours ago
@Raffzahn No. That one was, given the transition from 5.x to 3.x, why the exact 3.5" format we ended up with. This one is why the transition period of 5.x instead of jumping all the way to 3.x to begin with.
– rwallace
5 hours ago
1
1
@Raffzahn 'why not make the drives even cheaper by jumping straight to an even smaller form factor such as the 3.5" that was eventually settled on' seems pretty clear to me, though if anyone has a better idea, suggested edits welcome.
– rwallace
5 hours ago
@Raffzahn 'why not make the drives even cheaper by jumping straight to an even smaller form factor such as the 3.5" that was eventually settled on' seems pretty clear to me, though if anyone has a better idea, suggested edits welcome.
– rwallace
5 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
[W]hy not make the drives even cheaper by jumping straight to an even smaller form factor such as the 3.5" that was eventually settled on?
Because that needed a new technology. The move to 5.25 inch didn't change any technology involved. Everything stayed the same:
- Drive design
- Drive mechanics
- Electronics (including analogue)
- Material of floppies stayed the same
- Manufacturing of floppies
The only difference was in size, a linear shrink with a factor of about 1.5 (*1), which means the needed surface and thus size shrunk in half (*2). All without any basic change, just relative minor adaptions.
It's a bit like the Tick part of the often cited Tick-Tock strategy Intel follows for CPUs. A shrink of an existing design just in scale, not design or function. The following Tock was then again a step of design changes (*3).
(Beside, a 3.5 inch drive in an 8 inch bay would just look ridiculous :))
*1 - It's sufficient close to square root of 2 (1.41)
*2 - drive height was kept the same thus half volume. Later developments cut the height as well in half, resulting in 1/4th volume of a slim line 5.25 compared with a full height 8 inch
*3 - In fact it was a competition of many designs: IBM's 4", Sony's 3.5", Matushita's 3", Mitsumis 2.8", Sharp's 2.5" and Fujitsu's 2". Not to mention spiral formats like Sony/Canon's 2" VideoFloppy
"Because that needed a new technology" -- why? What was the limiting factor?
– traal
2 hours ago
@traal Investment? Companies don't build nice things because they are nice, but to earn money - and continue to produce with existing machinery - it saves the money to buy new, doesn't it?
– Raffzahn
1 hour ago
add a comment |
As Albert Einstein allegedly said “Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler.
The same applies to floppy drive size and many other things. There is a big difference between 8" and 5.25" in both drive size and disk size.
Drive size: 8" drives as part of an integrated system really limits your form factor choices. You can have the drives integrated with the monitor and everything else, like the TRS-80 Model II and then it doesn't seem so bad. But if you are making a smaller machine - e.g., Northstar Horizon, or a machine where the floppy drives are separate - e.g., Apple II, Atari 800, then 5.25" gives you a lot more options on how/where to place the drives.
Disk size: 8" disks require a large envelope (e.g., 9" x 9" or more typically stick them in a 9" x 12") to mail, and can only be stored one per page in a typical letter-size looseleaf binder. 5.25" disks can be sent in a smaller envelope and stored 2 per page in a letter-size looseleaf binder. They also work well with smaller software manuals - e.g., ~ 6" x 9", one per page.
However, jumping in the 1970s, to a smaller size would have resulted in either significantly reduced capacity (as already noted, if using the same track density and other parameters as 8" and initial 5.25" drives) and/or significantly increased costs due to more expensive (at the time) integration of electronic circuitry. So 5.25" gave the desired advantages - space, weight, cost - without going "too far".
When 3.5" did become a real thing, it came with a significant change - the hard plastic case. This brought in a new advantage of durability. At the same time, the technology for the necessary circuitry had advanced by that time enough to provide a higher capacity (720k and up) without a higher cost. This was also the era where the rest of the computer had shrunk enough to start producing laptops, where the size advantage of a 3.5" drive was critical. In the late 1970s and early 1980s, a typical motherboard the size of today's (or even 1990s) laptop motherboards, didn't include floppy drive controller, hard drive controller, video card, etc. So there was no practical reason to make the drives that small.
add a comment |
The main issue was the limitations of available stepper motors and control hardware for them, and the sensitivity of the read/write head.
In order to read/write information from the disk the read/write head has to be positioned over the correct area. Then the head itself needs to either sense changes in magnetic flux (read) or alter the magnetic flux (write).
So each track needs to be wide enough that the stepper motor can reliably position the head over it. Unlike a hard drive where it's always the same stepper motor, floppy disks have to work with the motors in many different drives so the tolerances have to be a lot lower.
5.25" was as small as the could go while keeping the technology somewhat affordable and reliable at the time. Later Sony improved tracking and better motors were available, so 3.5" disks became commercially viable.
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ready(function()
var channelOptions =
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "648"
;
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
createEditor();
);
else
createEditor();
);
function createEditor()
StackExchange.prepareEditor(
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader:
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
,
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
);
);
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fretrocomputing.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f9523%2fwhy-was-the-shrink-from-8-made-only-to-5-25-and-not-smaller-4-or-less%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
[W]hy not make the drives even cheaper by jumping straight to an even smaller form factor such as the 3.5" that was eventually settled on?
Because that needed a new technology. The move to 5.25 inch didn't change any technology involved. Everything stayed the same:
- Drive design
- Drive mechanics
- Electronics (including analogue)
- Material of floppies stayed the same
- Manufacturing of floppies
The only difference was in size, a linear shrink with a factor of about 1.5 (*1), which means the needed surface and thus size shrunk in half (*2). All without any basic change, just relative minor adaptions.
It's a bit like the Tick part of the often cited Tick-Tock strategy Intel follows for CPUs. A shrink of an existing design just in scale, not design or function. The following Tock was then again a step of design changes (*3).
(Beside, a 3.5 inch drive in an 8 inch bay would just look ridiculous :))
*1 - It's sufficient close to square root of 2 (1.41)
*2 - drive height was kept the same thus half volume. Later developments cut the height as well in half, resulting in 1/4th volume of a slim line 5.25 compared with a full height 8 inch
*3 - In fact it was a competition of many designs: IBM's 4", Sony's 3.5", Matushita's 3", Mitsumis 2.8", Sharp's 2.5" and Fujitsu's 2". Not to mention spiral formats like Sony/Canon's 2" VideoFloppy
"Because that needed a new technology" -- why? What was the limiting factor?
– traal
2 hours ago
@traal Investment? Companies don't build nice things because they are nice, but to earn money - and continue to produce with existing machinery - it saves the money to buy new, doesn't it?
– Raffzahn
1 hour ago
add a comment |
[W]hy not make the drives even cheaper by jumping straight to an even smaller form factor such as the 3.5" that was eventually settled on?
Because that needed a new technology. The move to 5.25 inch didn't change any technology involved. Everything stayed the same:
- Drive design
- Drive mechanics
- Electronics (including analogue)
- Material of floppies stayed the same
- Manufacturing of floppies
The only difference was in size, a linear shrink with a factor of about 1.5 (*1), which means the needed surface and thus size shrunk in half (*2). All without any basic change, just relative minor adaptions.
It's a bit like the Tick part of the often cited Tick-Tock strategy Intel follows for CPUs. A shrink of an existing design just in scale, not design or function. The following Tock was then again a step of design changes (*3).
(Beside, a 3.5 inch drive in an 8 inch bay would just look ridiculous :))
*1 - It's sufficient close to square root of 2 (1.41)
*2 - drive height was kept the same thus half volume. Later developments cut the height as well in half, resulting in 1/4th volume of a slim line 5.25 compared with a full height 8 inch
*3 - In fact it was a competition of many designs: IBM's 4", Sony's 3.5", Matushita's 3", Mitsumis 2.8", Sharp's 2.5" and Fujitsu's 2". Not to mention spiral formats like Sony/Canon's 2" VideoFloppy
"Because that needed a new technology" -- why? What was the limiting factor?
– traal
2 hours ago
@traal Investment? Companies don't build nice things because they are nice, but to earn money - and continue to produce with existing machinery - it saves the money to buy new, doesn't it?
– Raffzahn
1 hour ago
add a comment |
[W]hy not make the drives even cheaper by jumping straight to an even smaller form factor such as the 3.5" that was eventually settled on?
Because that needed a new technology. The move to 5.25 inch didn't change any technology involved. Everything stayed the same:
- Drive design
- Drive mechanics
- Electronics (including analogue)
- Material of floppies stayed the same
- Manufacturing of floppies
The only difference was in size, a linear shrink with a factor of about 1.5 (*1), which means the needed surface and thus size shrunk in half (*2). All without any basic change, just relative minor adaptions.
It's a bit like the Tick part of the often cited Tick-Tock strategy Intel follows for CPUs. A shrink of an existing design just in scale, not design or function. The following Tock was then again a step of design changes (*3).
(Beside, a 3.5 inch drive in an 8 inch bay would just look ridiculous :))
*1 - It's sufficient close to square root of 2 (1.41)
*2 - drive height was kept the same thus half volume. Later developments cut the height as well in half, resulting in 1/4th volume of a slim line 5.25 compared with a full height 8 inch
*3 - In fact it was a competition of many designs: IBM's 4", Sony's 3.5", Matushita's 3", Mitsumis 2.8", Sharp's 2.5" and Fujitsu's 2". Not to mention spiral formats like Sony/Canon's 2" VideoFloppy
[W]hy not make the drives even cheaper by jumping straight to an even smaller form factor such as the 3.5" that was eventually settled on?
Because that needed a new technology. The move to 5.25 inch didn't change any technology involved. Everything stayed the same:
- Drive design
- Drive mechanics
- Electronics (including analogue)
- Material of floppies stayed the same
- Manufacturing of floppies
The only difference was in size, a linear shrink with a factor of about 1.5 (*1), which means the needed surface and thus size shrunk in half (*2). All without any basic change, just relative minor adaptions.
It's a bit like the Tick part of the often cited Tick-Tock strategy Intel follows for CPUs. A shrink of an existing design just in scale, not design or function. The following Tock was then again a step of design changes (*3).
(Beside, a 3.5 inch drive in an 8 inch bay would just look ridiculous :))
*1 - It's sufficient close to square root of 2 (1.41)
*2 - drive height was kept the same thus half volume. Later developments cut the height as well in half, resulting in 1/4th volume of a slim line 5.25 compared with a full height 8 inch
*3 - In fact it was a competition of many designs: IBM's 4", Sony's 3.5", Matushita's 3", Mitsumis 2.8", Sharp's 2.5" and Fujitsu's 2". Not to mention spiral formats like Sony/Canon's 2" VideoFloppy
edited 4 hours ago
answered 5 hours ago
RaffzahnRaffzahn
54.7k6136222
54.7k6136222
"Because that needed a new technology" -- why? What was the limiting factor?
– traal
2 hours ago
@traal Investment? Companies don't build nice things because they are nice, but to earn money - and continue to produce with existing machinery - it saves the money to buy new, doesn't it?
– Raffzahn
1 hour ago
add a comment |
"Because that needed a new technology" -- why? What was the limiting factor?
– traal
2 hours ago
@traal Investment? Companies don't build nice things because they are nice, but to earn money - and continue to produce with existing machinery - it saves the money to buy new, doesn't it?
– Raffzahn
1 hour ago
"Because that needed a new technology" -- why? What was the limiting factor?
– traal
2 hours ago
"Because that needed a new technology" -- why? What was the limiting factor?
– traal
2 hours ago
@traal Investment? Companies don't build nice things because they are nice, but to earn money - and continue to produce with existing machinery - it saves the money to buy new, doesn't it?
– Raffzahn
1 hour ago
@traal Investment? Companies don't build nice things because they are nice, but to earn money - and continue to produce with existing machinery - it saves the money to buy new, doesn't it?
– Raffzahn
1 hour ago
add a comment |
As Albert Einstein allegedly said “Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler.
The same applies to floppy drive size and many other things. There is a big difference between 8" and 5.25" in both drive size and disk size.
Drive size: 8" drives as part of an integrated system really limits your form factor choices. You can have the drives integrated with the monitor and everything else, like the TRS-80 Model II and then it doesn't seem so bad. But if you are making a smaller machine - e.g., Northstar Horizon, or a machine where the floppy drives are separate - e.g., Apple II, Atari 800, then 5.25" gives you a lot more options on how/where to place the drives.
Disk size: 8" disks require a large envelope (e.g., 9" x 9" or more typically stick them in a 9" x 12") to mail, and can only be stored one per page in a typical letter-size looseleaf binder. 5.25" disks can be sent in a smaller envelope and stored 2 per page in a letter-size looseleaf binder. They also work well with smaller software manuals - e.g., ~ 6" x 9", one per page.
However, jumping in the 1970s, to a smaller size would have resulted in either significantly reduced capacity (as already noted, if using the same track density and other parameters as 8" and initial 5.25" drives) and/or significantly increased costs due to more expensive (at the time) integration of electronic circuitry. So 5.25" gave the desired advantages - space, weight, cost - without going "too far".
When 3.5" did become a real thing, it came with a significant change - the hard plastic case. This brought in a new advantage of durability. At the same time, the technology for the necessary circuitry had advanced by that time enough to provide a higher capacity (720k and up) without a higher cost. This was also the era where the rest of the computer had shrunk enough to start producing laptops, where the size advantage of a 3.5" drive was critical. In the late 1970s and early 1980s, a typical motherboard the size of today's (or even 1990s) laptop motherboards, didn't include floppy drive controller, hard drive controller, video card, etc. So there was no practical reason to make the drives that small.
add a comment |
As Albert Einstein allegedly said “Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler.
The same applies to floppy drive size and many other things. There is a big difference between 8" and 5.25" in both drive size and disk size.
Drive size: 8" drives as part of an integrated system really limits your form factor choices. You can have the drives integrated with the monitor and everything else, like the TRS-80 Model II and then it doesn't seem so bad. But if you are making a smaller machine - e.g., Northstar Horizon, or a machine where the floppy drives are separate - e.g., Apple II, Atari 800, then 5.25" gives you a lot more options on how/where to place the drives.
Disk size: 8" disks require a large envelope (e.g., 9" x 9" or more typically stick them in a 9" x 12") to mail, and can only be stored one per page in a typical letter-size looseleaf binder. 5.25" disks can be sent in a smaller envelope and stored 2 per page in a letter-size looseleaf binder. They also work well with smaller software manuals - e.g., ~ 6" x 9", one per page.
However, jumping in the 1970s, to a smaller size would have resulted in either significantly reduced capacity (as already noted, if using the same track density and other parameters as 8" and initial 5.25" drives) and/or significantly increased costs due to more expensive (at the time) integration of electronic circuitry. So 5.25" gave the desired advantages - space, weight, cost - without going "too far".
When 3.5" did become a real thing, it came with a significant change - the hard plastic case. This brought in a new advantage of durability. At the same time, the technology for the necessary circuitry had advanced by that time enough to provide a higher capacity (720k and up) without a higher cost. This was also the era where the rest of the computer had shrunk enough to start producing laptops, where the size advantage of a 3.5" drive was critical. In the late 1970s and early 1980s, a typical motherboard the size of today's (or even 1990s) laptop motherboards, didn't include floppy drive controller, hard drive controller, video card, etc. So there was no practical reason to make the drives that small.
add a comment |
As Albert Einstein allegedly said “Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler.
The same applies to floppy drive size and many other things. There is a big difference between 8" and 5.25" in both drive size and disk size.
Drive size: 8" drives as part of an integrated system really limits your form factor choices. You can have the drives integrated with the monitor and everything else, like the TRS-80 Model II and then it doesn't seem so bad. But if you are making a smaller machine - e.g., Northstar Horizon, or a machine where the floppy drives are separate - e.g., Apple II, Atari 800, then 5.25" gives you a lot more options on how/where to place the drives.
Disk size: 8" disks require a large envelope (e.g., 9" x 9" or more typically stick them in a 9" x 12") to mail, and can only be stored one per page in a typical letter-size looseleaf binder. 5.25" disks can be sent in a smaller envelope and stored 2 per page in a letter-size looseleaf binder. They also work well with smaller software manuals - e.g., ~ 6" x 9", one per page.
However, jumping in the 1970s, to a smaller size would have resulted in either significantly reduced capacity (as already noted, if using the same track density and other parameters as 8" and initial 5.25" drives) and/or significantly increased costs due to more expensive (at the time) integration of electronic circuitry. So 5.25" gave the desired advantages - space, weight, cost - without going "too far".
When 3.5" did become a real thing, it came with a significant change - the hard plastic case. This brought in a new advantage of durability. At the same time, the technology for the necessary circuitry had advanced by that time enough to provide a higher capacity (720k and up) without a higher cost. This was also the era where the rest of the computer had shrunk enough to start producing laptops, where the size advantage of a 3.5" drive was critical. In the late 1970s and early 1980s, a typical motherboard the size of today's (or even 1990s) laptop motherboards, didn't include floppy drive controller, hard drive controller, video card, etc. So there was no practical reason to make the drives that small.
As Albert Einstein allegedly said “Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler.
The same applies to floppy drive size and many other things. There is a big difference between 8" and 5.25" in both drive size and disk size.
Drive size: 8" drives as part of an integrated system really limits your form factor choices. You can have the drives integrated with the monitor and everything else, like the TRS-80 Model II and then it doesn't seem so bad. But if you are making a smaller machine - e.g., Northstar Horizon, or a machine where the floppy drives are separate - e.g., Apple II, Atari 800, then 5.25" gives you a lot more options on how/where to place the drives.
Disk size: 8" disks require a large envelope (e.g., 9" x 9" or more typically stick them in a 9" x 12") to mail, and can only be stored one per page in a typical letter-size looseleaf binder. 5.25" disks can be sent in a smaller envelope and stored 2 per page in a letter-size looseleaf binder. They also work well with smaller software manuals - e.g., ~ 6" x 9", one per page.
However, jumping in the 1970s, to a smaller size would have resulted in either significantly reduced capacity (as already noted, if using the same track density and other parameters as 8" and initial 5.25" drives) and/or significantly increased costs due to more expensive (at the time) integration of electronic circuitry. So 5.25" gave the desired advantages - space, weight, cost - without going "too far".
When 3.5" did become a real thing, it came with a significant change - the hard plastic case. This brought in a new advantage of durability. At the same time, the technology for the necessary circuitry had advanced by that time enough to provide a higher capacity (720k and up) without a higher cost. This was also the era where the rest of the computer had shrunk enough to start producing laptops, where the size advantage of a 3.5" drive was critical. In the late 1970s and early 1980s, a typical motherboard the size of today's (or even 1990s) laptop motherboards, didn't include floppy drive controller, hard drive controller, video card, etc. So there was no practical reason to make the drives that small.
answered 6 hours ago
manassehkatzmanassehkatz
3,072623
3,072623
add a comment |
add a comment |
The main issue was the limitations of available stepper motors and control hardware for them, and the sensitivity of the read/write head.
In order to read/write information from the disk the read/write head has to be positioned over the correct area. Then the head itself needs to either sense changes in magnetic flux (read) or alter the magnetic flux (write).
So each track needs to be wide enough that the stepper motor can reliably position the head over it. Unlike a hard drive where it's always the same stepper motor, floppy disks have to work with the motors in many different drives so the tolerances have to be a lot lower.
5.25" was as small as the could go while keeping the technology somewhat affordable and reliable at the time. Later Sony improved tracking and better motors were available, so 3.5" disks became commercially viable.
add a comment |
The main issue was the limitations of available stepper motors and control hardware for them, and the sensitivity of the read/write head.
In order to read/write information from the disk the read/write head has to be positioned over the correct area. Then the head itself needs to either sense changes in magnetic flux (read) or alter the magnetic flux (write).
So each track needs to be wide enough that the stepper motor can reliably position the head over it. Unlike a hard drive where it's always the same stepper motor, floppy disks have to work with the motors in many different drives so the tolerances have to be a lot lower.
5.25" was as small as the could go while keeping the technology somewhat affordable and reliable at the time. Later Sony improved tracking and better motors were available, so 3.5" disks became commercially viable.
add a comment |
The main issue was the limitations of available stepper motors and control hardware for them, and the sensitivity of the read/write head.
In order to read/write information from the disk the read/write head has to be positioned over the correct area. Then the head itself needs to either sense changes in magnetic flux (read) or alter the magnetic flux (write).
So each track needs to be wide enough that the stepper motor can reliably position the head over it. Unlike a hard drive where it's always the same stepper motor, floppy disks have to work with the motors in many different drives so the tolerances have to be a lot lower.
5.25" was as small as the could go while keeping the technology somewhat affordable and reliable at the time. Later Sony improved tracking and better motors were available, so 3.5" disks became commercially viable.
The main issue was the limitations of available stepper motors and control hardware for them, and the sensitivity of the read/write head.
In order to read/write information from the disk the read/write head has to be positioned over the correct area. Then the head itself needs to either sense changes in magnetic flux (read) or alter the magnetic flux (write).
So each track needs to be wide enough that the stepper motor can reliably position the head over it. Unlike a hard drive where it's always the same stepper motor, floppy disks have to work with the motors in many different drives so the tolerances have to be a lot lower.
5.25" was as small as the could go while keeping the technology somewhat affordable and reliable at the time. Later Sony improved tracking and better motors were available, so 3.5" disks became commercially viable.
answered 4 hours ago
useruser
3,865818
3,865818
add a comment |
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to Retrocomputing Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fretrocomputing.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f9523%2fwhy-was-the-shrink-from-8-made-only-to-5-25-and-not-smaller-4-or-less%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
2
Using a quick geometric calculation, the capacity of a 3.5" floppy using the existing technology would have been about 70 kbytes. Perhaps the reduced maximum linear velocity of the smaller radius would have allowed for slightly denser data, but capacity still would have been quite small.
– RichF
6 hours ago
Companies don't exist to (only) produce nice technology - their first and foremost purpose is - to make money. And if you have developed something that allows you to make money, you first try to sell what you have before developing "something better".
– tofro
6 hours ago
This seams to be a duplicate to your own (wrongful closed) question about the move to 3.5" diskettes. retrocomputing.stackexchange.com/questions/8794/…
– Raffzahn
5 hours ago
@Raffzahn No. That one was, given the transition from 5.x to 3.x, why the exact 3.5" format we ended up with. This one is why the transition period of 5.x instead of jumping all the way to 3.x to begin with.
– rwallace
5 hours ago
1
@Raffzahn 'why not make the drives even cheaper by jumping straight to an even smaller form factor such as the 3.5" that was eventually settled on' seems pretty clear to me, though if anyone has a better idea, suggested edits welcome.
– rwallace
5 hours ago