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Symbolism of 18 Journeyers


Mortal danger in mid-grade literatureWhen should my amnesiac protagonist regain memory?What constitutes a 'hook?'Guidance on pacing the introduction of new charactersorganising complex networksHow do you create a huge array of characters?How do I write different factions with ideologies, philosophies, and symbolism?Does symbolism have only one level of depth?Symbolism of number of crows?How to choose ideal number of main characters?How to cue in our readers that we are using an uncommon symbolism?













2















In my story, 12 year old Ruth has visions from another place and time which lead her to gather a group of kids for a quest. She is told there will be 18 kids, but she can only find 17 with the specific requirement. They travel together and, upon arriving, discover a stowaway. This boy knows he belongs with the group but he doesn’t tell anyone until well into the book (the reader also doesn’t know). Everyone else thinks he just came along to annoy them. The 18th child is an important character and his journey is pivotal to the story.



Why 18? Because it’s a Jewish-themed book and 18 is an important number in Judaism (it is related to the word for life and is often used for luck).



There is no specific task that requires 18 people and there is no need to highlight the number too much. It's there because it felt right to do so and, at this point, the characters are set. The number comes up a couple of times early in the story and, so far, not since. I'm looking for subtle ways to reference it.



In what ways can I evoke this symbolism and incorporate it into the story?










share|improve this question

















  • 1





    Are you looking for ways to reinforce the meaning of 18, or more ways to have 18 show up in the story, or reasons they need 18, or something else?

    – Monica Cellio
    6 hours ago












  • @MonicaCellio To be honest, I'm not entirely sure how I'm working it. I already have the 18 kids and they're all there, so that part's done. It's more of if I need to explain it and how, or how to incorporate small hints about it...reasons and reinforcements. Because as Galastel points out, it will be dead obvious to Jewish readers so I need something there, I'm just not sure what.

    – Cyn
    5 hours ago











  • Oh, so you're looking for a way to signal the significance of 18, it sounds like.

    – Monica Cellio
    3 hours ago











  • Any possibility that the ancient Egyptians mightn't notice the 18 and comment on it?

    – bruglesco
    2 hours ago











  • @MonicaCellio That sounds reasonable.

    – Cyn
    1 hour ago















2















In my story, 12 year old Ruth has visions from another place and time which lead her to gather a group of kids for a quest. She is told there will be 18 kids, but she can only find 17 with the specific requirement. They travel together and, upon arriving, discover a stowaway. This boy knows he belongs with the group but he doesn’t tell anyone until well into the book (the reader also doesn’t know). Everyone else thinks he just came along to annoy them. The 18th child is an important character and his journey is pivotal to the story.



Why 18? Because it’s a Jewish-themed book and 18 is an important number in Judaism (it is related to the word for life and is often used for luck).



There is no specific task that requires 18 people and there is no need to highlight the number too much. It's there because it felt right to do so and, at this point, the characters are set. The number comes up a couple of times early in the story and, so far, not since. I'm looking for subtle ways to reference it.



In what ways can I evoke this symbolism and incorporate it into the story?










share|improve this question

















  • 1





    Are you looking for ways to reinforce the meaning of 18, or more ways to have 18 show up in the story, or reasons they need 18, or something else?

    – Monica Cellio
    6 hours ago












  • @MonicaCellio To be honest, I'm not entirely sure how I'm working it. I already have the 18 kids and they're all there, so that part's done. It's more of if I need to explain it and how, or how to incorporate small hints about it...reasons and reinforcements. Because as Galastel points out, it will be dead obvious to Jewish readers so I need something there, I'm just not sure what.

    – Cyn
    5 hours ago











  • Oh, so you're looking for a way to signal the significance of 18, it sounds like.

    – Monica Cellio
    3 hours ago











  • Any possibility that the ancient Egyptians mightn't notice the 18 and comment on it?

    – bruglesco
    2 hours ago











  • @MonicaCellio That sounds reasonable.

    – Cyn
    1 hour ago













2












2








2








In my story, 12 year old Ruth has visions from another place and time which lead her to gather a group of kids for a quest. She is told there will be 18 kids, but she can only find 17 with the specific requirement. They travel together and, upon arriving, discover a stowaway. This boy knows he belongs with the group but he doesn’t tell anyone until well into the book (the reader also doesn’t know). Everyone else thinks he just came along to annoy them. The 18th child is an important character and his journey is pivotal to the story.



Why 18? Because it’s a Jewish-themed book and 18 is an important number in Judaism (it is related to the word for life and is often used for luck).



There is no specific task that requires 18 people and there is no need to highlight the number too much. It's there because it felt right to do so and, at this point, the characters are set. The number comes up a couple of times early in the story and, so far, not since. I'm looking for subtle ways to reference it.



In what ways can I evoke this symbolism and incorporate it into the story?










share|improve this question














In my story, 12 year old Ruth has visions from another place and time which lead her to gather a group of kids for a quest. She is told there will be 18 kids, but she can only find 17 with the specific requirement. They travel together and, upon arriving, discover a stowaway. This boy knows he belongs with the group but he doesn’t tell anyone until well into the book (the reader also doesn’t know). Everyone else thinks he just came along to annoy them. The 18th child is an important character and his journey is pivotal to the story.



Why 18? Because it’s a Jewish-themed book and 18 is an important number in Judaism (it is related to the word for life and is often used for luck).



There is no specific task that requires 18 people and there is no need to highlight the number too much. It's there because it felt right to do so and, at this point, the characters are set. The number comes up a couple of times early in the story and, so far, not since. I'm looking for subtle ways to reference it.



In what ways can I evoke this symbolism and incorporate it into the story?







characters novel story symbolism






share|improve this question













share|improve this question











share|improve this question




share|improve this question










asked 8 hours ago









CynCyn

14.1k12970




14.1k12970







  • 1





    Are you looking for ways to reinforce the meaning of 18, or more ways to have 18 show up in the story, or reasons they need 18, or something else?

    – Monica Cellio
    6 hours ago












  • @MonicaCellio To be honest, I'm not entirely sure how I'm working it. I already have the 18 kids and they're all there, so that part's done. It's more of if I need to explain it and how, or how to incorporate small hints about it...reasons and reinforcements. Because as Galastel points out, it will be dead obvious to Jewish readers so I need something there, I'm just not sure what.

    – Cyn
    5 hours ago











  • Oh, so you're looking for a way to signal the significance of 18, it sounds like.

    – Monica Cellio
    3 hours ago











  • Any possibility that the ancient Egyptians mightn't notice the 18 and comment on it?

    – bruglesco
    2 hours ago











  • @MonicaCellio That sounds reasonable.

    – Cyn
    1 hour ago












  • 1





    Are you looking for ways to reinforce the meaning of 18, or more ways to have 18 show up in the story, or reasons they need 18, or something else?

    – Monica Cellio
    6 hours ago












  • @MonicaCellio To be honest, I'm not entirely sure how I'm working it. I already have the 18 kids and they're all there, so that part's done. It's more of if I need to explain it and how, or how to incorporate small hints about it...reasons and reinforcements. Because as Galastel points out, it will be dead obvious to Jewish readers so I need something there, I'm just not sure what.

    – Cyn
    5 hours ago











  • Oh, so you're looking for a way to signal the significance of 18, it sounds like.

    – Monica Cellio
    3 hours ago











  • Any possibility that the ancient Egyptians mightn't notice the 18 and comment on it?

    – bruglesco
    2 hours ago











  • @MonicaCellio That sounds reasonable.

    – Cyn
    1 hour ago







1




1





Are you looking for ways to reinforce the meaning of 18, or more ways to have 18 show up in the story, or reasons they need 18, or something else?

– Monica Cellio
6 hours ago






Are you looking for ways to reinforce the meaning of 18, or more ways to have 18 show up in the story, or reasons they need 18, or something else?

– Monica Cellio
6 hours ago














@MonicaCellio To be honest, I'm not entirely sure how I'm working it. I already have the 18 kids and they're all there, so that part's done. It's more of if I need to explain it and how, or how to incorporate small hints about it...reasons and reinforcements. Because as Galastel points out, it will be dead obvious to Jewish readers so I need something there, I'm just not sure what.

– Cyn
5 hours ago





@MonicaCellio To be honest, I'm not entirely sure how I'm working it. I already have the 18 kids and they're all there, so that part's done. It's more of if I need to explain it and how, or how to incorporate small hints about it...reasons and reinforcements. Because as Galastel points out, it will be dead obvious to Jewish readers so I need something there, I'm just not sure what.

– Cyn
5 hours ago













Oh, so you're looking for a way to signal the significance of 18, it sounds like.

– Monica Cellio
3 hours ago





Oh, so you're looking for a way to signal the significance of 18, it sounds like.

– Monica Cellio
3 hours ago













Any possibility that the ancient Egyptians mightn't notice the 18 and comment on it?

– bruglesco
2 hours ago





Any possibility that the ancient Egyptians mightn't notice the 18 and comment on it?

– bruglesco
2 hours ago













@MonicaCellio That sounds reasonable.

– Cyn
1 hour ago





@MonicaCellio That sounds reasonable.

– Cyn
1 hour ago










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes


















5














How difficult/dangerous is their quest? You can have the 18 travelers manage to escape from dangerous situations unhurt time and time again, and generally keep having miraculously good luck.
Similarly, if there's a situation where the 18 aren't all together (suppose a couple of them wander off sightseeing), that's when their good luck should fail - and only reappear when all 18 are together again.



If you're hoping to make the symbolism a little more obvious (for non-Jewish readers), you could have one of them joke that it's because they have a lucky number (similar to how you might joke about having bad luck on a Friday the 13th). Or, when there's only 17 of them, one can say "We need one more for good luck" - or something to that effect.






share|improve this answer























  • Well, they time travel to Ancient Egypt and work alongside the slaves and then head out with them on the Exodus, not knowing when (or if) they're going to get home. So high danger level, but damped down because it's a kid's book. None of them were raised as Jews so the number 18 means nothing to them...

    – Cyn
    5 hours ago











  • @Cyn If the number 18 means nothing to them, they'll need to have the symbolism explained to them too. I like Galastel's "lucky charm" idea - maybe the runaway slaves didn't succeed in escaping until they had 18 time travelers to help them out, and now they think the 18 are lucky.

    – Evil Sparrow
    5 hours ago











  • Yes, they need it explained to them too for sure. I'll think about the lucky charm idea, thanks.

    – Cyn
    5 hours ago


















3














I see two parts to your question: signaling that 18 is significant, and signaling why it is significant. Assuming that you'll have Jewish readers too, don't skimp on the first part -- you want to give them something to notice and figure out, too.



Another answer addresses ways to show why 18 is significant. To show that 18 is significant, have it show up in various ways in the vicinity of the kids -- at a meal there's a candelabra with 18 candles; something happens at 18 past the hour; something costs 18 coins; a shelf contains 18 books; an office or hotel room is #18; etc. For an example (from TV, not writing) of this sort of thing, consider the TV show LOST, in which the numbers 4, 8, 15, 16, 23, and 24 were significant both together and separately, and some of those references you only notice after the fact, once you're looking for those numbers. You can slip 18s into your story in the same way. Make sure they always have something to do with the kids, and the astute reader will eventually notice that there are 18 kids, too. Avoid having 18 show up in other contexts.






share|improve this answer























  • Interesting ideas. I'll see if I can weave that in.

    – Cyn
    1 hour ago


















2














You've said it yourself: 18 = life. It follows that had there only been 17 travellers, they would not have come home alive. Preferably every child, but particularly the stowaway, must have a crucial role to play. Otherwise, they're not necessary, right?



You could play more with the idea. Your 18 travellers might turn out to be somehow necessary for the survival of people around them, making them a "lucky charm" for those nearby. Again, however, all 18 would have to somehow be necessary.



To a Jewish reader, the link 18-life is very very obvious, so it becomes a question of how you employ it. It's not something that might be missed, but readers might wonder how you put that symbol to good use. (Non-Jewish readers would have to google it, I suppose.)






share|improve this answer























  • Given that I'm writing for 8-12 year olds, I don't want to imply they might all be dead if they got the numbers wrong. But yeah, they each have a role to play, though I'm not going into detail with all 18 of them. They are the grandchildren of Kindertransport survivors who all lost their families. The theme of the book is about how it takes a generation or two to heal from mass trauma and how the later generations can reclaim their faith and heritage. The two groups help each other with this (with a large plot point at the golden calf).

    – Cyn
    5 hours ago






  • 2





    This non-Jewish potential reader wouldn't have Googled it, because I wouldn't have even considered the number 18 had any significance. There would be an obvious significance in a small number (e.g. 3 or 4) where each person has to contribute something critical for the task to succeed, but (for a non-Jew) why 18, rather than 15, 23, or whatever?

    – alephzero
    4 hours ago






  • 2





    @Galastel I think "there must be 18 people" needs a context, otherwise it makes no sense (and the OP has said that "I'm not going into detail with all 18 of them" which seems to leave the "why 18" question hanging in the air). Maybe the story needs to make it clear that this is a society or culture where numbers are important for more than just counting things.

    – alephzero
    4 hours ago







  • 1





    I would have thought it an arbitrary choice of 18. The significance would have escaped me. Since I am not the target audience, that is not a problem

    – Rasdashan
    4 hours ago






  • 1





    Working this into the story shouldn't be too hard. After all, when Ruth is told (in the vision) "there will be 18 kids", it would be perfectly natural for her to ask "Why 18? Why is this important?" Maybe the vision tells her why. Maybe she does her own research in the story. Either way, the reader gets the message.

    – alephzero
    4 hours ago










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3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes








3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









5














How difficult/dangerous is their quest? You can have the 18 travelers manage to escape from dangerous situations unhurt time and time again, and generally keep having miraculously good luck.
Similarly, if there's a situation where the 18 aren't all together (suppose a couple of them wander off sightseeing), that's when their good luck should fail - and only reappear when all 18 are together again.



If you're hoping to make the symbolism a little more obvious (for non-Jewish readers), you could have one of them joke that it's because they have a lucky number (similar to how you might joke about having bad luck on a Friday the 13th). Or, when there's only 17 of them, one can say "We need one more for good luck" - or something to that effect.






share|improve this answer























  • Well, they time travel to Ancient Egypt and work alongside the slaves and then head out with them on the Exodus, not knowing when (or if) they're going to get home. So high danger level, but damped down because it's a kid's book. None of them were raised as Jews so the number 18 means nothing to them...

    – Cyn
    5 hours ago











  • @Cyn If the number 18 means nothing to them, they'll need to have the symbolism explained to them too. I like Galastel's "lucky charm" idea - maybe the runaway slaves didn't succeed in escaping until they had 18 time travelers to help them out, and now they think the 18 are lucky.

    – Evil Sparrow
    5 hours ago











  • Yes, they need it explained to them too for sure. I'll think about the lucky charm idea, thanks.

    – Cyn
    5 hours ago















5














How difficult/dangerous is their quest? You can have the 18 travelers manage to escape from dangerous situations unhurt time and time again, and generally keep having miraculously good luck.
Similarly, if there's a situation where the 18 aren't all together (suppose a couple of them wander off sightseeing), that's when their good luck should fail - and only reappear when all 18 are together again.



If you're hoping to make the symbolism a little more obvious (for non-Jewish readers), you could have one of them joke that it's because they have a lucky number (similar to how you might joke about having bad luck on a Friday the 13th). Or, when there's only 17 of them, one can say "We need one more for good luck" - or something to that effect.






share|improve this answer























  • Well, they time travel to Ancient Egypt and work alongside the slaves and then head out with them on the Exodus, not knowing when (or if) they're going to get home. So high danger level, but damped down because it's a kid's book. None of them were raised as Jews so the number 18 means nothing to them...

    – Cyn
    5 hours ago











  • @Cyn If the number 18 means nothing to them, they'll need to have the symbolism explained to them too. I like Galastel's "lucky charm" idea - maybe the runaway slaves didn't succeed in escaping until they had 18 time travelers to help them out, and now they think the 18 are lucky.

    – Evil Sparrow
    5 hours ago











  • Yes, they need it explained to them too for sure. I'll think about the lucky charm idea, thanks.

    – Cyn
    5 hours ago













5












5








5







How difficult/dangerous is their quest? You can have the 18 travelers manage to escape from dangerous situations unhurt time and time again, and generally keep having miraculously good luck.
Similarly, if there's a situation where the 18 aren't all together (suppose a couple of them wander off sightseeing), that's when their good luck should fail - and only reappear when all 18 are together again.



If you're hoping to make the symbolism a little more obvious (for non-Jewish readers), you could have one of them joke that it's because they have a lucky number (similar to how you might joke about having bad luck on a Friday the 13th). Or, when there's only 17 of them, one can say "We need one more for good luck" - or something to that effect.






share|improve this answer













How difficult/dangerous is their quest? You can have the 18 travelers manage to escape from dangerous situations unhurt time and time again, and generally keep having miraculously good luck.
Similarly, if there's a situation where the 18 aren't all together (suppose a couple of them wander off sightseeing), that's when their good luck should fail - and only reappear when all 18 are together again.



If you're hoping to make the symbolism a little more obvious (for non-Jewish readers), you could have one of them joke that it's because they have a lucky number (similar to how you might joke about having bad luck on a Friday the 13th). Or, when there's only 17 of them, one can say "We need one more for good luck" - or something to that effect.







share|improve this answer












share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer










answered 5 hours ago









Evil SparrowEvil Sparrow

3866




3866












  • Well, they time travel to Ancient Egypt and work alongside the slaves and then head out with them on the Exodus, not knowing when (or if) they're going to get home. So high danger level, but damped down because it's a kid's book. None of them were raised as Jews so the number 18 means nothing to them...

    – Cyn
    5 hours ago











  • @Cyn If the number 18 means nothing to them, they'll need to have the symbolism explained to them too. I like Galastel's "lucky charm" idea - maybe the runaway slaves didn't succeed in escaping until they had 18 time travelers to help them out, and now they think the 18 are lucky.

    – Evil Sparrow
    5 hours ago











  • Yes, they need it explained to them too for sure. I'll think about the lucky charm idea, thanks.

    – Cyn
    5 hours ago

















  • Well, they time travel to Ancient Egypt and work alongside the slaves and then head out with them on the Exodus, not knowing when (or if) they're going to get home. So high danger level, but damped down because it's a kid's book. None of them were raised as Jews so the number 18 means nothing to them...

    – Cyn
    5 hours ago











  • @Cyn If the number 18 means nothing to them, they'll need to have the symbolism explained to them too. I like Galastel's "lucky charm" idea - maybe the runaway slaves didn't succeed in escaping until they had 18 time travelers to help them out, and now they think the 18 are lucky.

    – Evil Sparrow
    5 hours ago











  • Yes, they need it explained to them too for sure. I'll think about the lucky charm idea, thanks.

    – Cyn
    5 hours ago
















Well, they time travel to Ancient Egypt and work alongside the slaves and then head out with them on the Exodus, not knowing when (or if) they're going to get home. So high danger level, but damped down because it's a kid's book. None of them were raised as Jews so the number 18 means nothing to them...

– Cyn
5 hours ago





Well, they time travel to Ancient Egypt and work alongside the slaves and then head out with them on the Exodus, not knowing when (or if) they're going to get home. So high danger level, but damped down because it's a kid's book. None of them were raised as Jews so the number 18 means nothing to them...

– Cyn
5 hours ago













@Cyn If the number 18 means nothing to them, they'll need to have the symbolism explained to them too. I like Galastel's "lucky charm" idea - maybe the runaway slaves didn't succeed in escaping until they had 18 time travelers to help them out, and now they think the 18 are lucky.

– Evil Sparrow
5 hours ago





@Cyn If the number 18 means nothing to them, they'll need to have the symbolism explained to them too. I like Galastel's "lucky charm" idea - maybe the runaway slaves didn't succeed in escaping until they had 18 time travelers to help them out, and now they think the 18 are lucky.

– Evil Sparrow
5 hours ago













Yes, they need it explained to them too for sure. I'll think about the lucky charm idea, thanks.

– Cyn
5 hours ago





Yes, they need it explained to them too for sure. I'll think about the lucky charm idea, thanks.

– Cyn
5 hours ago











3














I see two parts to your question: signaling that 18 is significant, and signaling why it is significant. Assuming that you'll have Jewish readers too, don't skimp on the first part -- you want to give them something to notice and figure out, too.



Another answer addresses ways to show why 18 is significant. To show that 18 is significant, have it show up in various ways in the vicinity of the kids -- at a meal there's a candelabra with 18 candles; something happens at 18 past the hour; something costs 18 coins; a shelf contains 18 books; an office or hotel room is #18; etc. For an example (from TV, not writing) of this sort of thing, consider the TV show LOST, in which the numbers 4, 8, 15, 16, 23, and 24 were significant both together and separately, and some of those references you only notice after the fact, once you're looking for those numbers. You can slip 18s into your story in the same way. Make sure they always have something to do with the kids, and the astute reader will eventually notice that there are 18 kids, too. Avoid having 18 show up in other contexts.






share|improve this answer























  • Interesting ideas. I'll see if I can weave that in.

    – Cyn
    1 hour ago















3














I see two parts to your question: signaling that 18 is significant, and signaling why it is significant. Assuming that you'll have Jewish readers too, don't skimp on the first part -- you want to give them something to notice and figure out, too.



Another answer addresses ways to show why 18 is significant. To show that 18 is significant, have it show up in various ways in the vicinity of the kids -- at a meal there's a candelabra with 18 candles; something happens at 18 past the hour; something costs 18 coins; a shelf contains 18 books; an office or hotel room is #18; etc. For an example (from TV, not writing) of this sort of thing, consider the TV show LOST, in which the numbers 4, 8, 15, 16, 23, and 24 were significant both together and separately, and some of those references you only notice after the fact, once you're looking for those numbers. You can slip 18s into your story in the same way. Make sure they always have something to do with the kids, and the astute reader will eventually notice that there are 18 kids, too. Avoid having 18 show up in other contexts.






share|improve this answer























  • Interesting ideas. I'll see if I can weave that in.

    – Cyn
    1 hour ago













3












3








3







I see two parts to your question: signaling that 18 is significant, and signaling why it is significant. Assuming that you'll have Jewish readers too, don't skimp on the first part -- you want to give them something to notice and figure out, too.



Another answer addresses ways to show why 18 is significant. To show that 18 is significant, have it show up in various ways in the vicinity of the kids -- at a meal there's a candelabra with 18 candles; something happens at 18 past the hour; something costs 18 coins; a shelf contains 18 books; an office or hotel room is #18; etc. For an example (from TV, not writing) of this sort of thing, consider the TV show LOST, in which the numbers 4, 8, 15, 16, 23, and 24 were significant both together and separately, and some of those references you only notice after the fact, once you're looking for those numbers. You can slip 18s into your story in the same way. Make sure they always have something to do with the kids, and the astute reader will eventually notice that there are 18 kids, too. Avoid having 18 show up in other contexts.






share|improve this answer













I see two parts to your question: signaling that 18 is significant, and signaling why it is significant. Assuming that you'll have Jewish readers too, don't skimp on the first part -- you want to give them something to notice and figure out, too.



Another answer addresses ways to show why 18 is significant. To show that 18 is significant, have it show up in various ways in the vicinity of the kids -- at a meal there's a candelabra with 18 candles; something happens at 18 past the hour; something costs 18 coins; a shelf contains 18 books; an office or hotel room is #18; etc. For an example (from TV, not writing) of this sort of thing, consider the TV show LOST, in which the numbers 4, 8, 15, 16, 23, and 24 were significant both together and separately, and some of those references you only notice after the fact, once you're looking for those numbers. You can slip 18s into your story in the same way. Make sure they always have something to do with the kids, and the astute reader will eventually notice that there are 18 kids, too. Avoid having 18 show up in other contexts.







share|improve this answer












share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer










answered 3 hours ago









Monica CellioMonica Cellio

16.5k23687




16.5k23687












  • Interesting ideas. I'll see if I can weave that in.

    – Cyn
    1 hour ago

















  • Interesting ideas. I'll see if I can weave that in.

    – Cyn
    1 hour ago
















Interesting ideas. I'll see if I can weave that in.

– Cyn
1 hour ago





Interesting ideas. I'll see if I can weave that in.

– Cyn
1 hour ago











2














You've said it yourself: 18 = life. It follows that had there only been 17 travellers, they would not have come home alive. Preferably every child, but particularly the stowaway, must have a crucial role to play. Otherwise, they're not necessary, right?



You could play more with the idea. Your 18 travellers might turn out to be somehow necessary for the survival of people around them, making them a "lucky charm" for those nearby. Again, however, all 18 would have to somehow be necessary.



To a Jewish reader, the link 18-life is very very obvious, so it becomes a question of how you employ it. It's not something that might be missed, but readers might wonder how you put that symbol to good use. (Non-Jewish readers would have to google it, I suppose.)






share|improve this answer























  • Given that I'm writing for 8-12 year olds, I don't want to imply they might all be dead if they got the numbers wrong. But yeah, they each have a role to play, though I'm not going into detail with all 18 of them. They are the grandchildren of Kindertransport survivors who all lost their families. The theme of the book is about how it takes a generation or two to heal from mass trauma and how the later generations can reclaim their faith and heritage. The two groups help each other with this (with a large plot point at the golden calf).

    – Cyn
    5 hours ago






  • 2





    This non-Jewish potential reader wouldn't have Googled it, because I wouldn't have even considered the number 18 had any significance. There would be an obvious significance in a small number (e.g. 3 or 4) where each person has to contribute something critical for the task to succeed, but (for a non-Jew) why 18, rather than 15, 23, or whatever?

    – alephzero
    4 hours ago






  • 2





    @Galastel I think "there must be 18 people" needs a context, otherwise it makes no sense (and the OP has said that "I'm not going into detail with all 18 of them" which seems to leave the "why 18" question hanging in the air). Maybe the story needs to make it clear that this is a society or culture where numbers are important for more than just counting things.

    – alephzero
    4 hours ago







  • 1





    I would have thought it an arbitrary choice of 18. The significance would have escaped me. Since I am not the target audience, that is not a problem

    – Rasdashan
    4 hours ago






  • 1





    Working this into the story shouldn't be too hard. After all, when Ruth is told (in the vision) "there will be 18 kids", it would be perfectly natural for her to ask "Why 18? Why is this important?" Maybe the vision tells her why. Maybe she does her own research in the story. Either way, the reader gets the message.

    – alephzero
    4 hours ago















2














You've said it yourself: 18 = life. It follows that had there only been 17 travellers, they would not have come home alive. Preferably every child, but particularly the stowaway, must have a crucial role to play. Otherwise, they're not necessary, right?



You could play more with the idea. Your 18 travellers might turn out to be somehow necessary for the survival of people around them, making them a "lucky charm" for those nearby. Again, however, all 18 would have to somehow be necessary.



To a Jewish reader, the link 18-life is very very obvious, so it becomes a question of how you employ it. It's not something that might be missed, but readers might wonder how you put that symbol to good use. (Non-Jewish readers would have to google it, I suppose.)






share|improve this answer























  • Given that I'm writing for 8-12 year olds, I don't want to imply they might all be dead if they got the numbers wrong. But yeah, they each have a role to play, though I'm not going into detail with all 18 of them. They are the grandchildren of Kindertransport survivors who all lost their families. The theme of the book is about how it takes a generation or two to heal from mass trauma and how the later generations can reclaim their faith and heritage. The two groups help each other with this (with a large plot point at the golden calf).

    – Cyn
    5 hours ago






  • 2





    This non-Jewish potential reader wouldn't have Googled it, because I wouldn't have even considered the number 18 had any significance. There would be an obvious significance in a small number (e.g. 3 or 4) where each person has to contribute something critical for the task to succeed, but (for a non-Jew) why 18, rather than 15, 23, or whatever?

    – alephzero
    4 hours ago






  • 2





    @Galastel I think "there must be 18 people" needs a context, otherwise it makes no sense (and the OP has said that "I'm not going into detail with all 18 of them" which seems to leave the "why 18" question hanging in the air). Maybe the story needs to make it clear that this is a society or culture where numbers are important for more than just counting things.

    – alephzero
    4 hours ago







  • 1





    I would have thought it an arbitrary choice of 18. The significance would have escaped me. Since I am not the target audience, that is not a problem

    – Rasdashan
    4 hours ago






  • 1





    Working this into the story shouldn't be too hard. After all, when Ruth is told (in the vision) "there will be 18 kids", it would be perfectly natural for her to ask "Why 18? Why is this important?" Maybe the vision tells her why. Maybe she does her own research in the story. Either way, the reader gets the message.

    – alephzero
    4 hours ago













2












2








2







You've said it yourself: 18 = life. It follows that had there only been 17 travellers, they would not have come home alive. Preferably every child, but particularly the stowaway, must have a crucial role to play. Otherwise, they're not necessary, right?



You could play more with the idea. Your 18 travellers might turn out to be somehow necessary for the survival of people around them, making them a "lucky charm" for those nearby. Again, however, all 18 would have to somehow be necessary.



To a Jewish reader, the link 18-life is very very obvious, so it becomes a question of how you employ it. It's not something that might be missed, but readers might wonder how you put that symbol to good use. (Non-Jewish readers would have to google it, I suppose.)






share|improve this answer













You've said it yourself: 18 = life. It follows that had there only been 17 travellers, they would not have come home alive. Preferably every child, but particularly the stowaway, must have a crucial role to play. Otherwise, they're not necessary, right?



You could play more with the idea. Your 18 travellers might turn out to be somehow necessary for the survival of people around them, making them a "lucky charm" for those nearby. Again, however, all 18 would have to somehow be necessary.



To a Jewish reader, the link 18-life is very very obvious, so it becomes a question of how you employ it. It's not something that might be missed, but readers might wonder how you put that symbol to good use. (Non-Jewish readers would have to google it, I suppose.)







share|improve this answer












share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer










answered 7 hours ago









GalastelGalastel

36.7k6109194




36.7k6109194












  • Given that I'm writing for 8-12 year olds, I don't want to imply they might all be dead if they got the numbers wrong. But yeah, they each have a role to play, though I'm not going into detail with all 18 of them. They are the grandchildren of Kindertransport survivors who all lost their families. The theme of the book is about how it takes a generation or two to heal from mass trauma and how the later generations can reclaim their faith and heritage. The two groups help each other with this (with a large plot point at the golden calf).

    – Cyn
    5 hours ago






  • 2





    This non-Jewish potential reader wouldn't have Googled it, because I wouldn't have even considered the number 18 had any significance. There would be an obvious significance in a small number (e.g. 3 or 4) where each person has to contribute something critical for the task to succeed, but (for a non-Jew) why 18, rather than 15, 23, or whatever?

    – alephzero
    4 hours ago






  • 2





    @Galastel I think "there must be 18 people" needs a context, otherwise it makes no sense (and the OP has said that "I'm not going into detail with all 18 of them" which seems to leave the "why 18" question hanging in the air). Maybe the story needs to make it clear that this is a society or culture where numbers are important for more than just counting things.

    – alephzero
    4 hours ago







  • 1





    I would have thought it an arbitrary choice of 18. The significance would have escaped me. Since I am not the target audience, that is not a problem

    – Rasdashan
    4 hours ago






  • 1





    Working this into the story shouldn't be too hard. After all, when Ruth is told (in the vision) "there will be 18 kids", it would be perfectly natural for her to ask "Why 18? Why is this important?" Maybe the vision tells her why. Maybe she does her own research in the story. Either way, the reader gets the message.

    – alephzero
    4 hours ago

















  • Given that I'm writing for 8-12 year olds, I don't want to imply they might all be dead if they got the numbers wrong. But yeah, they each have a role to play, though I'm not going into detail with all 18 of them. They are the grandchildren of Kindertransport survivors who all lost their families. The theme of the book is about how it takes a generation or two to heal from mass trauma and how the later generations can reclaim their faith and heritage. The two groups help each other with this (with a large plot point at the golden calf).

    – Cyn
    5 hours ago






  • 2





    This non-Jewish potential reader wouldn't have Googled it, because I wouldn't have even considered the number 18 had any significance. There would be an obvious significance in a small number (e.g. 3 or 4) where each person has to contribute something critical for the task to succeed, but (for a non-Jew) why 18, rather than 15, 23, or whatever?

    – alephzero
    4 hours ago






  • 2





    @Galastel I think "there must be 18 people" needs a context, otherwise it makes no sense (and the OP has said that "I'm not going into detail with all 18 of them" which seems to leave the "why 18" question hanging in the air). Maybe the story needs to make it clear that this is a society or culture where numbers are important for more than just counting things.

    – alephzero
    4 hours ago







  • 1





    I would have thought it an arbitrary choice of 18. The significance would have escaped me. Since I am not the target audience, that is not a problem

    – Rasdashan
    4 hours ago






  • 1





    Working this into the story shouldn't be too hard. After all, when Ruth is told (in the vision) "there will be 18 kids", it would be perfectly natural for her to ask "Why 18? Why is this important?" Maybe the vision tells her why. Maybe she does her own research in the story. Either way, the reader gets the message.

    – alephzero
    4 hours ago
















Given that I'm writing for 8-12 year olds, I don't want to imply they might all be dead if they got the numbers wrong. But yeah, they each have a role to play, though I'm not going into detail with all 18 of them. They are the grandchildren of Kindertransport survivors who all lost their families. The theme of the book is about how it takes a generation or two to heal from mass trauma and how the later generations can reclaim their faith and heritage. The two groups help each other with this (with a large plot point at the golden calf).

– Cyn
5 hours ago





Given that I'm writing for 8-12 year olds, I don't want to imply they might all be dead if they got the numbers wrong. But yeah, they each have a role to play, though I'm not going into detail with all 18 of them. They are the grandchildren of Kindertransport survivors who all lost their families. The theme of the book is about how it takes a generation or two to heal from mass trauma and how the later generations can reclaim their faith and heritage. The two groups help each other with this (with a large plot point at the golden calf).

– Cyn
5 hours ago




2




2





This non-Jewish potential reader wouldn't have Googled it, because I wouldn't have even considered the number 18 had any significance. There would be an obvious significance in a small number (e.g. 3 or 4) where each person has to contribute something critical for the task to succeed, but (for a non-Jew) why 18, rather than 15, 23, or whatever?

– alephzero
4 hours ago





This non-Jewish potential reader wouldn't have Googled it, because I wouldn't have even considered the number 18 had any significance. There would be an obvious significance in a small number (e.g. 3 or 4) where each person has to contribute something critical for the task to succeed, but (for a non-Jew) why 18, rather than 15, 23, or whatever?

– alephzero
4 hours ago




2




2





@Galastel I think "there must be 18 people" needs a context, otherwise it makes no sense (and the OP has said that "I'm not going into detail with all 18 of them" which seems to leave the "why 18" question hanging in the air). Maybe the story needs to make it clear that this is a society or culture where numbers are important for more than just counting things.

– alephzero
4 hours ago






@Galastel I think "there must be 18 people" needs a context, otherwise it makes no sense (and the OP has said that "I'm not going into detail with all 18 of them" which seems to leave the "why 18" question hanging in the air). Maybe the story needs to make it clear that this is a society or culture where numbers are important for more than just counting things.

– alephzero
4 hours ago





1




1





I would have thought it an arbitrary choice of 18. The significance would have escaped me. Since I am not the target audience, that is not a problem

– Rasdashan
4 hours ago





I would have thought it an arbitrary choice of 18. The significance would have escaped me. Since I am not the target audience, that is not a problem

– Rasdashan
4 hours ago




1




1





Working this into the story shouldn't be too hard. After all, when Ruth is told (in the vision) "there will be 18 kids", it would be perfectly natural for her to ask "Why 18? Why is this important?" Maybe the vision tells her why. Maybe she does her own research in the story. Either way, the reader gets the message.

– alephzero
4 hours ago





Working this into the story shouldn't be too hard. After all, when Ruth is told (in the vision) "there will be 18 kids", it would be perfectly natural for her to ask "Why 18? Why is this important?" Maybe the vision tells her why. Maybe she does her own research in the story. Either way, the reader gets the message.

– alephzero
4 hours ago

















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