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Suing a Police Officer Instead of the Police Department


Can I booby-trap my property against police?How to win against a moving violation ticket that was issued different than what I had allegedly committed?Police not accepting “Signature Forgery” report only because in the past we have signed some other authentic papers with perpetratorIs it legal for police to travel with a film crew and publicize arrest footage without consent?When do the police get involved and when do they have power to resolve a (non-violent) situation?Can a civilian legally take any action against a police officer if they witness the officer violating traffic laws?What do you sue for in a breach of warranty case when no other repair is available?Are plain clothes police officers allowed to use force to make an arrest?Can a police officer lie?lying to lawyer illegal













50















My car was towed in Seattle for an alleged parking violation.
I paid $350 to get it back and then went to court and had the
violation dismissed. The police officer who wrote the ticket
and called for the tow did not show up for the court hearing,
there was no evidence of a violation, and I testified that I
was careful to park legally (and indeed I was conscious of the
"No Parking" sign referring to one spot about 50 feet away from
where I parked). So, I believe the officer made some mistake.



Now, I'd rather not sue the government to get my $350 back
(you could simply say that I prefer not to have tax-payers,
including myself, pay for it), so intend to serve and sue the
officer directly. I know where to find him and actually
will first give him a demand note to pay me the $350, but I
assume that note will get me nothing.



So, what's the most likely result of my approach? Is there
precedent for taking an officer to court for a small claims
case like this? Am I likely to have the case dismissed and
be forced to refile against SPD?



(Please don't let this distract from my question, but my philosophy
is that people hide behind groups/governments/companies too often,
and I'd like to push society to take more personal responsibility
for their own actions. I have no problem with the police, my
problem is that one guy made a very careless mistake. I feel like
he won't see the consequences for his actions if I make my case
against the entire SPD. Whether it's to reduce taxes or to push
my philosophy, I know I'm struggling here just for a Pyrrhic
victory...so I'm 99% sure I will simply abandon this and sue SPD in
the end.)










share|improve this question

















  • 46





    You can't sue an officer for doing his job. He is just going to say you parked illegally.

    – Putvi
    Apr 22 at 21:21






  • 9





    As @Putvi notes in his answer, a suit against the officer would be futile. There is a very good chance that you wouldn't prevail against anyone to get your $350 back either. The default rule is that if you are charged with something and the charges don't hold up, that the government owes you nothing.

    – ohwilleke
    Apr 22 at 22:13






  • 9





    What @ohwilleke said is right, but in IL at least they try to work with you on the fees if you are found innocent. Call the towing place and file a motion in the case you won to ask that the city refund the fee since you won. I'm not saying they have to refund it, but some places are nice. It's probably different in huge town like Seattle though.

    – Putvi
    Apr 22 at 22:17






  • 16





    Good heavens, you must be unfamiliar with the recent history of police brutality in Seattle! In Seattle the police can pull over, yell at a deaf person minding their own business walking down the street, shoot them dead in a matter of seconds, and are 100% immune from consequences and lawsuits. They're allowed to get away literally with random murders; you think you can take a police officer to court over a parking violation?

    – Eric Lippert
    2 days ago







  • 14





    Slightly off topic but why aren't you automatically refunded the £350 fine if you've been found not to have parked illegally? Why does this require a lawsuit and not just asking for it back. Seems like a weird law

    – Richard Tingle
    2 days ago
















50















My car was towed in Seattle for an alleged parking violation.
I paid $350 to get it back and then went to court and had the
violation dismissed. The police officer who wrote the ticket
and called for the tow did not show up for the court hearing,
there was no evidence of a violation, and I testified that I
was careful to park legally (and indeed I was conscious of the
"No Parking" sign referring to one spot about 50 feet away from
where I parked). So, I believe the officer made some mistake.



Now, I'd rather not sue the government to get my $350 back
(you could simply say that I prefer not to have tax-payers,
including myself, pay for it), so intend to serve and sue the
officer directly. I know where to find him and actually
will first give him a demand note to pay me the $350, but I
assume that note will get me nothing.



So, what's the most likely result of my approach? Is there
precedent for taking an officer to court for a small claims
case like this? Am I likely to have the case dismissed and
be forced to refile against SPD?



(Please don't let this distract from my question, but my philosophy
is that people hide behind groups/governments/companies too often,
and I'd like to push society to take more personal responsibility
for their own actions. I have no problem with the police, my
problem is that one guy made a very careless mistake. I feel like
he won't see the consequences for his actions if I make my case
against the entire SPD. Whether it's to reduce taxes or to push
my philosophy, I know I'm struggling here just for a Pyrrhic
victory...so I'm 99% sure I will simply abandon this and sue SPD in
the end.)










share|improve this question

















  • 46





    You can't sue an officer for doing his job. He is just going to say you parked illegally.

    – Putvi
    Apr 22 at 21:21






  • 9





    As @Putvi notes in his answer, a suit against the officer would be futile. There is a very good chance that you wouldn't prevail against anyone to get your $350 back either. The default rule is that if you are charged with something and the charges don't hold up, that the government owes you nothing.

    – ohwilleke
    Apr 22 at 22:13






  • 9





    What @ohwilleke said is right, but in IL at least they try to work with you on the fees if you are found innocent. Call the towing place and file a motion in the case you won to ask that the city refund the fee since you won. I'm not saying they have to refund it, but some places are nice. It's probably different in huge town like Seattle though.

    – Putvi
    Apr 22 at 22:17






  • 16





    Good heavens, you must be unfamiliar with the recent history of police brutality in Seattle! In Seattle the police can pull over, yell at a deaf person minding their own business walking down the street, shoot them dead in a matter of seconds, and are 100% immune from consequences and lawsuits. They're allowed to get away literally with random murders; you think you can take a police officer to court over a parking violation?

    – Eric Lippert
    2 days ago







  • 14





    Slightly off topic but why aren't you automatically refunded the £350 fine if you've been found not to have parked illegally? Why does this require a lawsuit and not just asking for it back. Seems like a weird law

    – Richard Tingle
    2 days ago














50












50








50


3






My car was towed in Seattle for an alleged parking violation.
I paid $350 to get it back and then went to court and had the
violation dismissed. The police officer who wrote the ticket
and called for the tow did not show up for the court hearing,
there was no evidence of a violation, and I testified that I
was careful to park legally (and indeed I was conscious of the
"No Parking" sign referring to one spot about 50 feet away from
where I parked). So, I believe the officer made some mistake.



Now, I'd rather not sue the government to get my $350 back
(you could simply say that I prefer not to have tax-payers,
including myself, pay for it), so intend to serve and sue the
officer directly. I know where to find him and actually
will first give him a demand note to pay me the $350, but I
assume that note will get me nothing.



So, what's the most likely result of my approach? Is there
precedent for taking an officer to court for a small claims
case like this? Am I likely to have the case dismissed and
be forced to refile against SPD?



(Please don't let this distract from my question, but my philosophy
is that people hide behind groups/governments/companies too often,
and I'd like to push society to take more personal responsibility
for their own actions. I have no problem with the police, my
problem is that one guy made a very careless mistake. I feel like
he won't see the consequences for his actions if I make my case
against the entire SPD. Whether it's to reduce taxes or to push
my philosophy, I know I'm struggling here just for a Pyrrhic
victory...so I'm 99% sure I will simply abandon this and sue SPD in
the end.)










share|improve this question














My car was towed in Seattle for an alleged parking violation.
I paid $350 to get it back and then went to court and had the
violation dismissed. The police officer who wrote the ticket
and called for the tow did not show up for the court hearing,
there was no evidence of a violation, and I testified that I
was careful to park legally (and indeed I was conscious of the
"No Parking" sign referring to one spot about 50 feet away from
where I parked). So, I believe the officer made some mistake.



Now, I'd rather not sue the government to get my $350 back
(you could simply say that I prefer not to have tax-payers,
including myself, pay for it), so intend to serve and sue the
officer directly. I know where to find him and actually
will first give him a demand note to pay me the $350, but I
assume that note will get me nothing.



So, what's the most likely result of my approach? Is there
precedent for taking an officer to court for a small claims
case like this? Am I likely to have the case dismissed and
be forced to refile against SPD?



(Please don't let this distract from my question, but my philosophy
is that people hide behind groups/governments/companies too often,
and I'd like to push society to take more personal responsibility
for their own actions. I have no problem with the police, my
problem is that one guy made a very careless mistake. I feel like
he won't see the consequences for his actions if I make my case
against the entire SPD. Whether it's to reduce taxes or to push
my philosophy, I know I'm struggling here just for a Pyrrhic
victory...so I'm 99% sure I will simply abandon this and sue SPD in
the end.)







police small-claims-court government-officers






share|improve this question













share|improve this question











share|improve this question




share|improve this question










asked Apr 22 at 21:19









bobuhitobobuhito

368138




368138







  • 46





    You can't sue an officer for doing his job. He is just going to say you parked illegally.

    – Putvi
    Apr 22 at 21:21






  • 9





    As @Putvi notes in his answer, a suit against the officer would be futile. There is a very good chance that you wouldn't prevail against anyone to get your $350 back either. The default rule is that if you are charged with something and the charges don't hold up, that the government owes you nothing.

    – ohwilleke
    Apr 22 at 22:13






  • 9





    What @ohwilleke said is right, but in IL at least they try to work with you on the fees if you are found innocent. Call the towing place and file a motion in the case you won to ask that the city refund the fee since you won. I'm not saying they have to refund it, but some places are nice. It's probably different in huge town like Seattle though.

    – Putvi
    Apr 22 at 22:17






  • 16





    Good heavens, you must be unfamiliar with the recent history of police brutality in Seattle! In Seattle the police can pull over, yell at a deaf person minding their own business walking down the street, shoot them dead in a matter of seconds, and are 100% immune from consequences and lawsuits. They're allowed to get away literally with random murders; you think you can take a police officer to court over a parking violation?

    – Eric Lippert
    2 days ago







  • 14





    Slightly off topic but why aren't you automatically refunded the £350 fine if you've been found not to have parked illegally? Why does this require a lawsuit and not just asking for it back. Seems like a weird law

    – Richard Tingle
    2 days ago













  • 46





    You can't sue an officer for doing his job. He is just going to say you parked illegally.

    – Putvi
    Apr 22 at 21:21






  • 9





    As @Putvi notes in his answer, a suit against the officer would be futile. There is a very good chance that you wouldn't prevail against anyone to get your $350 back either. The default rule is that if you are charged with something and the charges don't hold up, that the government owes you nothing.

    – ohwilleke
    Apr 22 at 22:13






  • 9





    What @ohwilleke said is right, but in IL at least they try to work with you on the fees if you are found innocent. Call the towing place and file a motion in the case you won to ask that the city refund the fee since you won. I'm not saying they have to refund it, but some places are nice. It's probably different in huge town like Seattle though.

    – Putvi
    Apr 22 at 22:17






  • 16





    Good heavens, you must be unfamiliar with the recent history of police brutality in Seattle! In Seattle the police can pull over, yell at a deaf person minding their own business walking down the street, shoot them dead in a matter of seconds, and are 100% immune from consequences and lawsuits. They're allowed to get away literally with random murders; you think you can take a police officer to court over a parking violation?

    – Eric Lippert
    2 days ago







  • 14





    Slightly off topic but why aren't you automatically refunded the £350 fine if you've been found not to have parked illegally? Why does this require a lawsuit and not just asking for it back. Seems like a weird law

    – Richard Tingle
    2 days ago








46




46





You can't sue an officer for doing his job. He is just going to say you parked illegally.

– Putvi
Apr 22 at 21:21





You can't sue an officer for doing his job. He is just going to say you parked illegally.

– Putvi
Apr 22 at 21:21




9




9





As @Putvi notes in his answer, a suit against the officer would be futile. There is a very good chance that you wouldn't prevail against anyone to get your $350 back either. The default rule is that if you are charged with something and the charges don't hold up, that the government owes you nothing.

– ohwilleke
Apr 22 at 22:13





As @Putvi notes in his answer, a suit against the officer would be futile. There is a very good chance that you wouldn't prevail against anyone to get your $350 back either. The default rule is that if you are charged with something and the charges don't hold up, that the government owes you nothing.

– ohwilleke
Apr 22 at 22:13




9




9





What @ohwilleke said is right, but in IL at least they try to work with you on the fees if you are found innocent. Call the towing place and file a motion in the case you won to ask that the city refund the fee since you won. I'm not saying they have to refund it, but some places are nice. It's probably different in huge town like Seattle though.

– Putvi
Apr 22 at 22:17





What @ohwilleke said is right, but in IL at least they try to work with you on the fees if you are found innocent. Call the towing place and file a motion in the case you won to ask that the city refund the fee since you won. I'm not saying they have to refund it, but some places are nice. It's probably different in huge town like Seattle though.

– Putvi
Apr 22 at 22:17




16




16





Good heavens, you must be unfamiliar with the recent history of police brutality in Seattle! In Seattle the police can pull over, yell at a deaf person minding their own business walking down the street, shoot them dead in a matter of seconds, and are 100% immune from consequences and lawsuits. They're allowed to get away literally with random murders; you think you can take a police officer to court over a parking violation?

– Eric Lippert
2 days ago






Good heavens, you must be unfamiliar with the recent history of police brutality in Seattle! In Seattle the police can pull over, yell at a deaf person minding their own business walking down the street, shoot them dead in a matter of seconds, and are 100% immune from consequences and lawsuits. They're allowed to get away literally with random murders; you think you can take a police officer to court over a parking violation?

– Eric Lippert
2 days ago





14




14





Slightly off topic but why aren't you automatically refunded the £350 fine if you've been found not to have parked illegally? Why does this require a lawsuit and not just asking for it back. Seems like a weird law

– Richard Tingle
2 days ago






Slightly off topic but why aren't you automatically refunded the £350 fine if you've been found not to have parked illegally? Why does this require a lawsuit and not just asking for it back. Seems like a weird law

– Richard Tingle
2 days ago











7 Answers
7






active

oldest

votes


















81














Even if you had grounds for a lawsuit, you could not make it come out of the officer’s pocket. Under Chapter 4.64 of the Seattle Code, the City of Seattle is generally required to defend and indemnify city employees who are sued for doing their job. If you sue a police officer, the city pays his lawyer; if you win or if the city decides your claim is legitimate, the city pays whatever damages there were. The provision does not cover “claims and/or litigation arising from any dishonest, fraudulent, criminal or malicious acts or omissions of officers or employees of the City,” but that requires a lot more than “I wasn’t parked illegally,” and in any event you cannot force that issue -— only the city can. That’s between the officer and the city, and has nothing to do with you.



This provision is pretty common in employment, including government employment. If I’m working for you and am acting in good faith, doing things for your benefit under your instructions, it’s only fair for you to shoulder the costs if I mess up. When it comes to government employees (whose job often makes people very angry at them), indemnification is extremely common. If police officers faced the risk of financial ruin for innocent mistakes, it’d be very hard to find anyone willing to do the job.






share|improve this answer


















  • 3





    This is the second time I read something to the likes of not being able to sue someone for just doing his job. Thing is, he didn't do his job. He fined someone completely random and innocent person in a case where all the information was available to prevent it. That's not his job.

    – pipe
    2 days ago






  • 35





    @pipe The point is that the officer didn't deliberately go out that day having decided to wrongly charge some motorists with parking violations. That would be a crime. He screwed up and made a mistake about what was legal and illegal. That's not a crime, it's a mistake. If this happened in an environment where you paid the $350 to the officer on the spot, in cash, and got no official paperwork about the incident, then yes the officer would quite likely be guilty of fraud, extortion, or whatever. But that's not what actually happened.

    – alephzero
    2 days ago






  • 6





    @pipe Dozens of traffic and parking violations are dismissed daily because the cop didn't show up to court. Heck, it's standard advice to always challenge a ticket in case the officer doesn't show up. It doesn't mean they didn't do it, it only means the cop thought it wasn't worth his time to come in and testify.

    – pboss3010
    2 days ago






  • 4





    @pipe His job is to, among other things, enforce parking violations. He was doing that job. He was doing it badly, but he was doing it.

    – David Richerby
    2 days ago






  • 2





    @alephzero, How are you sure it was just a mistake?

    – CramerTV
    2 days ago



















19














I'll go ahead and add in a federal level legal principle on top of all of the local and state laws that stand in your way: qualified immunity.



In short, you'd have to prove that the officer was plainly incompetent. Police officers who have accidentally shot people they were intending to tase have been granted immunity under the various statutes being mentioned here, so I'm fairly confident a parking ticket will not meet the burden of proof required to consider the officer as an individual rather than an entity of the government.



However, any good lawyer will tell you that nothing is certain in court, so you might be able to get a high priced lawyer to help you form the argument in just the right way. And after about 15 minutes, that $350 you're trying to reclaim will be his ;)






share|improve this answer










New contributor




bvoyelr is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.



























    14














    You could sue the officer. You could even make it a federal suit under Section 1983 (see the text of the law). However, to prevail, you would have to show that the officer knew that you were doing nothing illegal, or that any reasonable officer would have known this. If a reasonable, even an ordinarily careless, officer might well have believed that you were parked illegally, you will probably lose.



    You would also have to show that your right was "well established" to defeat the qualified immunity that police officers generally have.



    As to your larger goal, you should know that in many localities, even if you bring such a suit and win, the municipality, or the police union, may well reimburse the officer. So the burden may fall on the taxpayers in any case, whatever you do.



    You could complain to the department. They might chose to impose some penalty on the officer. But they might well do nothing at all. In many localities you would not even be informed of the result.



    If you sue the department as a whole, you may still need to establish at least the negligence of the officer who wrote the ticket. You may need to name the officer specifically. My understanding is that a sec 1983 suit must always name specific individuals. Suits under other laws follow different rules, and may vary by state or locality.






    share|improve this answer























    • Well, I think I could prove "any reasonable officer would have known this", so you give me a little hope...but not enough yet to pursue the personal lawsuit.

      – bobuhito
      Apr 22 at 22:38






    • 5





      @bobuhito I don't know the facts here, but remember that "reasonable" can include "careless" as long as the person is not 'grossly negligent". You will want to consult a lawyer before going far with this, I think.. Or you could just request refund of the towing fee, as a first step. You could always sue if you are turned down.

      – David Siegel
      Apr 22 at 22:44


















    6














    No, you can not sue him for this. A police officer has to have done something wrong for you to sue, not just his job.



    I know you are saying the ticket was not warranted, but even if you are right, he can say he made a mistake and thought you were too far over and he is in the clear unless you can show he intentionally gave you a ticket when it wasn't deserved.



    This article explains how and why an officer is normally immune from lawsuits.






    share|improve this answer

























    • Ok, I hope SPD deducts $350 from his pay then, assuming I win against SPD. I'll mark this as the answer, but give others a chance to answer for a few days first.

      – bobuhito
      Apr 22 at 22:01






    • 3





      I get that it sucks, but they aren't going to take from his pay. File a motion in the case you won to get the money back.

      – Putvi
      Apr 22 at 22:03











    • For the record, I was told I needed to open a whole new case at district court to get a hearing for the $350, which itself requires an $83 filing fee. I wish there were a simpler "file a motion" option like you said. I'll update here in a month or two with the result of the new case.

      – bobuhito
      Apr 22 at 22:34






    • 2





      You have to file a new case if you want to sue, yes, but I just meant the court you won your case in has the power to reimburse you, like they do for legal fees etc.

      – Putvi
      Apr 22 at 22:46











    • @bobuhito Deducting pay from people for making mistakes is very illegal (not that that stops cops a lot of the time anyway).

      – Azor Ahai
      2 days ago


















    3














    Most of the answers are being too specific, vicarious liability would apply to the officer just as it does with any other employer. The employer is responsible for the employees incompetence, not the employee.



    As for your philosophical objections to the officer not paying, that is in fact why vicarious liability is so common and applies in this case. Because holding the officer liable would produce the opposite of what you are imagining. In this case the government got your $350, and you want to be reimbursed by the officer. That doesn’t do anything except encourage the employer to hire more incompetent people. They don’t even have to pay back the money they got! The most logical thing to do would be to find a balance between maximum income (so incompetent as to give a ticket to a moving vehicle for a parking violation) and public outrage that gets managers (politicians) fired.



    An employer basically has one recourse for actions by their employees that result in liability—-fire the offender so they don’t do it again. If they weren’t on the hook for liability, they could instead always shift the blame to the employee. There’s always going to be an employee involved somewhere, that did something that 20-20 hindsight says was the wrong thing to do. Yeah, the company doesn’t owe anything. Let’s do it again, but charge more.






    share|improve this answer






























      2














      The biggest issue with your situation is that the police didn't get your $350. The towing company did. So even if you can get the police to admit they made a mistake, they don't have your money, and can't give it back. They will tell you to take it up with the towing company.



      The towing company isn't going to give you your money back, because towing companies don't work that way. You could sue them, but you aren't likely to win, because even if you could prove that the towing company knew there was no violation, and therefore no reason to tow your car, they will say they were following the order of a police officer, and there is probably some ordinance that says that a direct order from a police officer trumps everything else. So the towing company will point to the police and say, take it up with them.



      You're caught in an infinite loop.



      The only way to break the loop is to prove fraud or conspiracy. That the towing company towed your legally parked car with the intention of extorting a ransom for it. But they'll just say the police ordered them to do it. No case there. So you need to prove that the police intentionally ordered the car towed without cause. That's going to be really tough to do. Your best bet is to find some sort of link between the police officer and the towing company. A kickback of some kind, but good luck with that. Otherwise, it's just a mistake, and officers are allowed to make mistakes.



      Another thing to consider is that some part of the $350 the towing company charged goes to the city, as part of the towing services contract. I looked it up, and there is a "city administrative fee" of $35 that I think you should get back from the city. It's not much, but it's better than nothing.






      share|improve this answer




















      • 1





        The police could acknowledge that the 350 towing fee was a result of their error, and choose to refund it. Whether they will do that out of good will I can't say. Whether a court would compel them to is unclear, but probably only if it was proved that the offivcer's action was not just a mistake, but unreasonable or malicious. That would be hard to prove.

        – David Siegel
        yesterday






      • 1





        @DavidSiegel: Sue them both under joint liability in one court action. No infinite loop. If you can get a jury trial you might even win.

        – Joshua
        yesterday











      • @Joshua The towing company would likely move to have the case against it dismissed on the ground that it simply followed an apparently valid police order to tow, that it performed the service, and that it is not liable for any mistake by the police officer. It would probably win that dismissal. Joint suit would have added nothing except legal fees.

        – David Siegel
        yesterday






      • 1





        So, assume that theoretically it could be proved that the car was not parked illegally - perhaps a picture, a GPS log, or something similar. Is it legally possible to retrieve the entire $350? Sounds like the answer is no...

        – Scot
        23 hours ago












      • @Scot The bottom line is that the towing company did nothing wrong. They performed a service for which they deserve to get paid, so you won't get your money back from them. The police screwed up, but they aren't set up to refund money for mistakes, so you won't get your money back from them. I think you do have a valid claim against the city, and there is probably a process to file a claim. In fact, here it is: seattle.gov/filing-a-damage-claim. Give up trying to punish the police or the officer. That will get you nowhere.

        – Mohair
        11 hours ago


















      1














      There are laws in place in some states and cities that prevent a towing company from holding your vehicle hostage if you don't pay the tow fee. I know this doesn't help you right now, but I post as an answer to bring awareness to anyone else who may find themselves in a similar situation.



      In your case (assuming Seattle or Washington state has a similar law) you could have retrieved your vehicle from impound without being forced to pay the tow fee. You'd be billed for the tow, of course, but if you could have subsequently showed the (alleged) illegal parking offense was dismissed, you might have been able to dispute the $350 charge legally.



      As I said, this is not a universal policy, so it won't apply to every person or in every situation. Do some local research so you have the facts if you should be improperly towed.






      share|improve this answer








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      Headblender is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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        protected by feetwet 13 hours ago



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        7 Answers
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        81














        Even if you had grounds for a lawsuit, you could not make it come out of the officer’s pocket. Under Chapter 4.64 of the Seattle Code, the City of Seattle is generally required to defend and indemnify city employees who are sued for doing their job. If you sue a police officer, the city pays his lawyer; if you win or if the city decides your claim is legitimate, the city pays whatever damages there were. The provision does not cover “claims and/or litigation arising from any dishonest, fraudulent, criminal or malicious acts or omissions of officers or employees of the City,” but that requires a lot more than “I wasn’t parked illegally,” and in any event you cannot force that issue -— only the city can. That’s between the officer and the city, and has nothing to do with you.



        This provision is pretty common in employment, including government employment. If I’m working for you and am acting in good faith, doing things for your benefit under your instructions, it’s only fair for you to shoulder the costs if I mess up. When it comes to government employees (whose job often makes people very angry at them), indemnification is extremely common. If police officers faced the risk of financial ruin for innocent mistakes, it’d be very hard to find anyone willing to do the job.






        share|improve this answer


















        • 3





          This is the second time I read something to the likes of not being able to sue someone for just doing his job. Thing is, he didn't do his job. He fined someone completely random and innocent person in a case where all the information was available to prevent it. That's not his job.

          – pipe
          2 days ago






        • 35





          @pipe The point is that the officer didn't deliberately go out that day having decided to wrongly charge some motorists with parking violations. That would be a crime. He screwed up and made a mistake about what was legal and illegal. That's not a crime, it's a mistake. If this happened in an environment where you paid the $350 to the officer on the spot, in cash, and got no official paperwork about the incident, then yes the officer would quite likely be guilty of fraud, extortion, or whatever. But that's not what actually happened.

          – alephzero
          2 days ago






        • 6





          @pipe Dozens of traffic and parking violations are dismissed daily because the cop didn't show up to court. Heck, it's standard advice to always challenge a ticket in case the officer doesn't show up. It doesn't mean they didn't do it, it only means the cop thought it wasn't worth his time to come in and testify.

          – pboss3010
          2 days ago






        • 4





          @pipe His job is to, among other things, enforce parking violations. He was doing that job. He was doing it badly, but he was doing it.

          – David Richerby
          2 days ago






        • 2





          @alephzero, How are you sure it was just a mistake?

          – CramerTV
          2 days ago
















        81














        Even if you had grounds for a lawsuit, you could not make it come out of the officer’s pocket. Under Chapter 4.64 of the Seattle Code, the City of Seattle is generally required to defend and indemnify city employees who are sued for doing their job. If you sue a police officer, the city pays his lawyer; if you win or if the city decides your claim is legitimate, the city pays whatever damages there were. The provision does not cover “claims and/or litigation arising from any dishonest, fraudulent, criminal or malicious acts or omissions of officers or employees of the City,” but that requires a lot more than “I wasn’t parked illegally,” and in any event you cannot force that issue -— only the city can. That’s between the officer and the city, and has nothing to do with you.



        This provision is pretty common in employment, including government employment. If I’m working for you and am acting in good faith, doing things for your benefit under your instructions, it’s only fair for you to shoulder the costs if I mess up. When it comes to government employees (whose job often makes people very angry at them), indemnification is extremely common. If police officers faced the risk of financial ruin for innocent mistakes, it’d be very hard to find anyone willing to do the job.






        share|improve this answer


















        • 3





          This is the second time I read something to the likes of not being able to sue someone for just doing his job. Thing is, he didn't do his job. He fined someone completely random and innocent person in a case where all the information was available to prevent it. That's not his job.

          – pipe
          2 days ago






        • 35





          @pipe The point is that the officer didn't deliberately go out that day having decided to wrongly charge some motorists with parking violations. That would be a crime. He screwed up and made a mistake about what was legal and illegal. That's not a crime, it's a mistake. If this happened in an environment where you paid the $350 to the officer on the spot, in cash, and got no official paperwork about the incident, then yes the officer would quite likely be guilty of fraud, extortion, or whatever. But that's not what actually happened.

          – alephzero
          2 days ago






        • 6





          @pipe Dozens of traffic and parking violations are dismissed daily because the cop didn't show up to court. Heck, it's standard advice to always challenge a ticket in case the officer doesn't show up. It doesn't mean they didn't do it, it only means the cop thought it wasn't worth his time to come in and testify.

          – pboss3010
          2 days ago






        • 4





          @pipe His job is to, among other things, enforce parking violations. He was doing that job. He was doing it badly, but he was doing it.

          – David Richerby
          2 days ago






        • 2





          @alephzero, How are you sure it was just a mistake?

          – CramerTV
          2 days ago














        81












        81








        81







        Even if you had grounds for a lawsuit, you could not make it come out of the officer’s pocket. Under Chapter 4.64 of the Seattle Code, the City of Seattle is generally required to defend and indemnify city employees who are sued for doing their job. If you sue a police officer, the city pays his lawyer; if you win or if the city decides your claim is legitimate, the city pays whatever damages there were. The provision does not cover “claims and/or litigation arising from any dishonest, fraudulent, criminal or malicious acts or omissions of officers or employees of the City,” but that requires a lot more than “I wasn’t parked illegally,” and in any event you cannot force that issue -— only the city can. That’s between the officer and the city, and has nothing to do with you.



        This provision is pretty common in employment, including government employment. If I’m working for you and am acting in good faith, doing things for your benefit under your instructions, it’s only fair for you to shoulder the costs if I mess up. When it comes to government employees (whose job often makes people very angry at them), indemnification is extremely common. If police officers faced the risk of financial ruin for innocent mistakes, it’d be very hard to find anyone willing to do the job.






        share|improve this answer













        Even if you had grounds for a lawsuit, you could not make it come out of the officer’s pocket. Under Chapter 4.64 of the Seattle Code, the City of Seattle is generally required to defend and indemnify city employees who are sued for doing their job. If you sue a police officer, the city pays his lawyer; if you win or if the city decides your claim is legitimate, the city pays whatever damages there were. The provision does not cover “claims and/or litigation arising from any dishonest, fraudulent, criminal or malicious acts or omissions of officers or employees of the City,” but that requires a lot more than “I wasn’t parked illegally,” and in any event you cannot force that issue -— only the city can. That’s between the officer and the city, and has nothing to do with you.



        This provision is pretty common in employment, including government employment. If I’m working for you and am acting in good faith, doing things for your benefit under your instructions, it’s only fair for you to shoulder the costs if I mess up. When it comes to government employees (whose job often makes people very angry at them), indemnification is extremely common. If police officers faced the risk of financial ruin for innocent mistakes, it’d be very hard to find anyone willing to do the job.







        share|improve this answer












        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer










        answered Apr 22 at 22:41









        cpastcpast

        13.7k12662




        13.7k12662







        • 3





          This is the second time I read something to the likes of not being able to sue someone for just doing his job. Thing is, he didn't do his job. He fined someone completely random and innocent person in a case where all the information was available to prevent it. That's not his job.

          – pipe
          2 days ago






        • 35





          @pipe The point is that the officer didn't deliberately go out that day having decided to wrongly charge some motorists with parking violations. That would be a crime. He screwed up and made a mistake about what was legal and illegal. That's not a crime, it's a mistake. If this happened in an environment where you paid the $350 to the officer on the spot, in cash, and got no official paperwork about the incident, then yes the officer would quite likely be guilty of fraud, extortion, or whatever. But that's not what actually happened.

          – alephzero
          2 days ago






        • 6





          @pipe Dozens of traffic and parking violations are dismissed daily because the cop didn't show up to court. Heck, it's standard advice to always challenge a ticket in case the officer doesn't show up. It doesn't mean they didn't do it, it only means the cop thought it wasn't worth his time to come in and testify.

          – pboss3010
          2 days ago






        • 4





          @pipe His job is to, among other things, enforce parking violations. He was doing that job. He was doing it badly, but he was doing it.

          – David Richerby
          2 days ago






        • 2





          @alephzero, How are you sure it was just a mistake?

          – CramerTV
          2 days ago













        • 3





          This is the second time I read something to the likes of not being able to sue someone for just doing his job. Thing is, he didn't do his job. He fined someone completely random and innocent person in a case where all the information was available to prevent it. That's not his job.

          – pipe
          2 days ago






        • 35





          @pipe The point is that the officer didn't deliberately go out that day having decided to wrongly charge some motorists with parking violations. That would be a crime. He screwed up and made a mistake about what was legal and illegal. That's not a crime, it's a mistake. If this happened in an environment where you paid the $350 to the officer on the spot, in cash, and got no official paperwork about the incident, then yes the officer would quite likely be guilty of fraud, extortion, or whatever. But that's not what actually happened.

          – alephzero
          2 days ago






        • 6





          @pipe Dozens of traffic and parking violations are dismissed daily because the cop didn't show up to court. Heck, it's standard advice to always challenge a ticket in case the officer doesn't show up. It doesn't mean they didn't do it, it only means the cop thought it wasn't worth his time to come in and testify.

          – pboss3010
          2 days ago






        • 4





          @pipe His job is to, among other things, enforce parking violations. He was doing that job. He was doing it badly, but he was doing it.

          – David Richerby
          2 days ago






        • 2





          @alephzero, How are you sure it was just a mistake?

          – CramerTV
          2 days ago








        3




        3





        This is the second time I read something to the likes of not being able to sue someone for just doing his job. Thing is, he didn't do his job. He fined someone completely random and innocent person in a case where all the information was available to prevent it. That's not his job.

        – pipe
        2 days ago





        This is the second time I read something to the likes of not being able to sue someone for just doing his job. Thing is, he didn't do his job. He fined someone completely random and innocent person in a case where all the information was available to prevent it. That's not his job.

        – pipe
        2 days ago




        35




        35





        @pipe The point is that the officer didn't deliberately go out that day having decided to wrongly charge some motorists with parking violations. That would be a crime. He screwed up and made a mistake about what was legal and illegal. That's not a crime, it's a mistake. If this happened in an environment where you paid the $350 to the officer on the spot, in cash, and got no official paperwork about the incident, then yes the officer would quite likely be guilty of fraud, extortion, or whatever. But that's not what actually happened.

        – alephzero
        2 days ago





        @pipe The point is that the officer didn't deliberately go out that day having decided to wrongly charge some motorists with parking violations. That would be a crime. He screwed up and made a mistake about what was legal and illegal. That's not a crime, it's a mistake. If this happened in an environment where you paid the $350 to the officer on the spot, in cash, and got no official paperwork about the incident, then yes the officer would quite likely be guilty of fraud, extortion, or whatever. But that's not what actually happened.

        – alephzero
        2 days ago




        6




        6





        @pipe Dozens of traffic and parking violations are dismissed daily because the cop didn't show up to court. Heck, it's standard advice to always challenge a ticket in case the officer doesn't show up. It doesn't mean they didn't do it, it only means the cop thought it wasn't worth his time to come in and testify.

        – pboss3010
        2 days ago





        @pipe Dozens of traffic and parking violations are dismissed daily because the cop didn't show up to court. Heck, it's standard advice to always challenge a ticket in case the officer doesn't show up. It doesn't mean they didn't do it, it only means the cop thought it wasn't worth his time to come in and testify.

        – pboss3010
        2 days ago




        4




        4





        @pipe His job is to, among other things, enforce parking violations. He was doing that job. He was doing it badly, but he was doing it.

        – David Richerby
        2 days ago





        @pipe His job is to, among other things, enforce parking violations. He was doing that job. He was doing it badly, but he was doing it.

        – David Richerby
        2 days ago




        2




        2





        @alephzero, How are you sure it was just a mistake?

        – CramerTV
        2 days ago






        @alephzero, How are you sure it was just a mistake?

        – CramerTV
        2 days ago












        19














        I'll go ahead and add in a federal level legal principle on top of all of the local and state laws that stand in your way: qualified immunity.



        In short, you'd have to prove that the officer was plainly incompetent. Police officers who have accidentally shot people they were intending to tase have been granted immunity under the various statutes being mentioned here, so I'm fairly confident a parking ticket will not meet the burden of proof required to consider the officer as an individual rather than an entity of the government.



        However, any good lawyer will tell you that nothing is certain in court, so you might be able to get a high priced lawyer to help you form the argument in just the right way. And after about 15 minutes, that $350 you're trying to reclaim will be his ;)






        share|improve this answer










        New contributor




        bvoyelr is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
        Check out our Code of Conduct.
























          19














          I'll go ahead and add in a federal level legal principle on top of all of the local and state laws that stand in your way: qualified immunity.



          In short, you'd have to prove that the officer was plainly incompetent. Police officers who have accidentally shot people they were intending to tase have been granted immunity under the various statutes being mentioned here, so I'm fairly confident a parking ticket will not meet the burden of proof required to consider the officer as an individual rather than an entity of the government.



          However, any good lawyer will tell you that nothing is certain in court, so you might be able to get a high priced lawyer to help you form the argument in just the right way. And after about 15 minutes, that $350 you're trying to reclaim will be his ;)






          share|improve this answer










          New contributor




          bvoyelr is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.






















            19












            19








            19







            I'll go ahead and add in a federal level legal principle on top of all of the local and state laws that stand in your way: qualified immunity.



            In short, you'd have to prove that the officer was plainly incompetent. Police officers who have accidentally shot people they were intending to tase have been granted immunity under the various statutes being mentioned here, so I'm fairly confident a parking ticket will not meet the burden of proof required to consider the officer as an individual rather than an entity of the government.



            However, any good lawyer will tell you that nothing is certain in court, so you might be able to get a high priced lawyer to help you form the argument in just the right way. And after about 15 minutes, that $350 you're trying to reclaim will be his ;)






            share|improve this answer










            New contributor




            bvoyelr is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.










            I'll go ahead and add in a federal level legal principle on top of all of the local and state laws that stand in your way: qualified immunity.



            In short, you'd have to prove that the officer was plainly incompetent. Police officers who have accidentally shot people they were intending to tase have been granted immunity under the various statutes being mentioned here, so I'm fairly confident a parking ticket will not meet the burden of proof required to consider the officer as an individual rather than an entity of the government.



            However, any good lawyer will tell you that nothing is certain in court, so you might be able to get a high priced lawyer to help you form the argument in just the right way. And after about 15 minutes, that $350 you're trying to reclaim will be his ;)







            share|improve this answer










            New contributor




            bvoyelr is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.









            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer








            edited yesterday









            Community

            1




            1






            New contributor




            bvoyelr is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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            answered 2 days ago









            bvoyelrbvoyelr

            2913




            2913




            New contributor




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            New contributor





            bvoyelr is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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            Check out our Code of Conduct.





















                14














                You could sue the officer. You could even make it a federal suit under Section 1983 (see the text of the law). However, to prevail, you would have to show that the officer knew that you were doing nothing illegal, or that any reasonable officer would have known this. If a reasonable, even an ordinarily careless, officer might well have believed that you were parked illegally, you will probably lose.



                You would also have to show that your right was "well established" to defeat the qualified immunity that police officers generally have.



                As to your larger goal, you should know that in many localities, even if you bring such a suit and win, the municipality, or the police union, may well reimburse the officer. So the burden may fall on the taxpayers in any case, whatever you do.



                You could complain to the department. They might chose to impose some penalty on the officer. But they might well do nothing at all. In many localities you would not even be informed of the result.



                If you sue the department as a whole, you may still need to establish at least the negligence of the officer who wrote the ticket. You may need to name the officer specifically. My understanding is that a sec 1983 suit must always name specific individuals. Suits under other laws follow different rules, and may vary by state or locality.






                share|improve this answer























                • Well, I think I could prove "any reasonable officer would have known this", so you give me a little hope...but not enough yet to pursue the personal lawsuit.

                  – bobuhito
                  Apr 22 at 22:38






                • 5





                  @bobuhito I don't know the facts here, but remember that "reasonable" can include "careless" as long as the person is not 'grossly negligent". You will want to consult a lawyer before going far with this, I think.. Or you could just request refund of the towing fee, as a first step. You could always sue if you are turned down.

                  – David Siegel
                  Apr 22 at 22:44















                14














                You could sue the officer. You could even make it a federal suit under Section 1983 (see the text of the law). However, to prevail, you would have to show that the officer knew that you were doing nothing illegal, or that any reasonable officer would have known this. If a reasonable, even an ordinarily careless, officer might well have believed that you were parked illegally, you will probably lose.



                You would also have to show that your right was "well established" to defeat the qualified immunity that police officers generally have.



                As to your larger goal, you should know that in many localities, even if you bring such a suit and win, the municipality, or the police union, may well reimburse the officer. So the burden may fall on the taxpayers in any case, whatever you do.



                You could complain to the department. They might chose to impose some penalty on the officer. But they might well do nothing at all. In many localities you would not even be informed of the result.



                If you sue the department as a whole, you may still need to establish at least the negligence of the officer who wrote the ticket. You may need to name the officer specifically. My understanding is that a sec 1983 suit must always name specific individuals. Suits under other laws follow different rules, and may vary by state or locality.






                share|improve this answer























                • Well, I think I could prove "any reasonable officer would have known this", so you give me a little hope...but not enough yet to pursue the personal lawsuit.

                  – bobuhito
                  Apr 22 at 22:38






                • 5





                  @bobuhito I don't know the facts here, but remember that "reasonable" can include "careless" as long as the person is not 'grossly negligent". You will want to consult a lawyer before going far with this, I think.. Or you could just request refund of the towing fee, as a first step. You could always sue if you are turned down.

                  – David Siegel
                  Apr 22 at 22:44













                14












                14








                14







                You could sue the officer. You could even make it a federal suit under Section 1983 (see the text of the law). However, to prevail, you would have to show that the officer knew that you were doing nothing illegal, or that any reasonable officer would have known this. If a reasonable, even an ordinarily careless, officer might well have believed that you were parked illegally, you will probably lose.



                You would also have to show that your right was "well established" to defeat the qualified immunity that police officers generally have.



                As to your larger goal, you should know that in many localities, even if you bring such a suit and win, the municipality, or the police union, may well reimburse the officer. So the burden may fall on the taxpayers in any case, whatever you do.



                You could complain to the department. They might chose to impose some penalty on the officer. But they might well do nothing at all. In many localities you would not even be informed of the result.



                If you sue the department as a whole, you may still need to establish at least the negligence of the officer who wrote the ticket. You may need to name the officer specifically. My understanding is that a sec 1983 suit must always name specific individuals. Suits under other laws follow different rules, and may vary by state or locality.






                share|improve this answer













                You could sue the officer. You could even make it a federal suit under Section 1983 (see the text of the law). However, to prevail, you would have to show that the officer knew that you were doing nothing illegal, or that any reasonable officer would have known this. If a reasonable, even an ordinarily careless, officer might well have believed that you were parked illegally, you will probably lose.



                You would also have to show that your right was "well established" to defeat the qualified immunity that police officers generally have.



                As to your larger goal, you should know that in many localities, even if you bring such a suit and win, the municipality, or the police union, may well reimburse the officer. So the burden may fall on the taxpayers in any case, whatever you do.



                You could complain to the department. They might chose to impose some penalty on the officer. But they might well do nothing at all. In many localities you would not even be informed of the result.



                If you sue the department as a whole, you may still need to establish at least the negligence of the officer who wrote the ticket. You may need to name the officer specifically. My understanding is that a sec 1983 suit must always name specific individuals. Suits under other laws follow different rules, and may vary by state or locality.







                share|improve this answer












                share|improve this answer



                share|improve this answer










                answered Apr 22 at 22:26









                David SiegelDavid Siegel

                17.8k3768




                17.8k3768












                • Well, I think I could prove "any reasonable officer would have known this", so you give me a little hope...but not enough yet to pursue the personal lawsuit.

                  – bobuhito
                  Apr 22 at 22:38






                • 5





                  @bobuhito I don't know the facts here, but remember that "reasonable" can include "careless" as long as the person is not 'grossly negligent". You will want to consult a lawyer before going far with this, I think.. Or you could just request refund of the towing fee, as a first step. You could always sue if you are turned down.

                  – David Siegel
                  Apr 22 at 22:44

















                • Well, I think I could prove "any reasonable officer would have known this", so you give me a little hope...but not enough yet to pursue the personal lawsuit.

                  – bobuhito
                  Apr 22 at 22:38






                • 5





                  @bobuhito I don't know the facts here, but remember that "reasonable" can include "careless" as long as the person is not 'grossly negligent". You will want to consult a lawyer before going far with this, I think.. Or you could just request refund of the towing fee, as a first step. You could always sue if you are turned down.

                  – David Siegel
                  Apr 22 at 22:44
















                Well, I think I could prove "any reasonable officer would have known this", so you give me a little hope...but not enough yet to pursue the personal lawsuit.

                – bobuhito
                Apr 22 at 22:38





                Well, I think I could prove "any reasonable officer would have known this", so you give me a little hope...but not enough yet to pursue the personal lawsuit.

                – bobuhito
                Apr 22 at 22:38




                5




                5





                @bobuhito I don't know the facts here, but remember that "reasonable" can include "careless" as long as the person is not 'grossly negligent". You will want to consult a lawyer before going far with this, I think.. Or you could just request refund of the towing fee, as a first step. You could always sue if you are turned down.

                – David Siegel
                Apr 22 at 22:44





                @bobuhito I don't know the facts here, but remember that "reasonable" can include "careless" as long as the person is not 'grossly negligent". You will want to consult a lawyer before going far with this, I think.. Or you could just request refund of the towing fee, as a first step. You could always sue if you are turned down.

                – David Siegel
                Apr 22 at 22:44











                6














                No, you can not sue him for this. A police officer has to have done something wrong for you to sue, not just his job.



                I know you are saying the ticket was not warranted, but even if you are right, he can say he made a mistake and thought you were too far over and he is in the clear unless you can show he intentionally gave you a ticket when it wasn't deserved.



                This article explains how and why an officer is normally immune from lawsuits.






                share|improve this answer

























                • Ok, I hope SPD deducts $350 from his pay then, assuming I win against SPD. I'll mark this as the answer, but give others a chance to answer for a few days first.

                  – bobuhito
                  Apr 22 at 22:01






                • 3





                  I get that it sucks, but they aren't going to take from his pay. File a motion in the case you won to get the money back.

                  – Putvi
                  Apr 22 at 22:03











                • For the record, I was told I needed to open a whole new case at district court to get a hearing for the $350, which itself requires an $83 filing fee. I wish there were a simpler "file a motion" option like you said. I'll update here in a month or two with the result of the new case.

                  – bobuhito
                  Apr 22 at 22:34






                • 2





                  You have to file a new case if you want to sue, yes, but I just meant the court you won your case in has the power to reimburse you, like they do for legal fees etc.

                  – Putvi
                  Apr 22 at 22:46











                • @bobuhito Deducting pay from people for making mistakes is very illegal (not that that stops cops a lot of the time anyway).

                  – Azor Ahai
                  2 days ago















                6














                No, you can not sue him for this. A police officer has to have done something wrong for you to sue, not just his job.



                I know you are saying the ticket was not warranted, but even if you are right, he can say he made a mistake and thought you were too far over and he is in the clear unless you can show he intentionally gave you a ticket when it wasn't deserved.



                This article explains how and why an officer is normally immune from lawsuits.






                share|improve this answer

























                • Ok, I hope SPD deducts $350 from his pay then, assuming I win against SPD. I'll mark this as the answer, but give others a chance to answer for a few days first.

                  – bobuhito
                  Apr 22 at 22:01






                • 3





                  I get that it sucks, but they aren't going to take from his pay. File a motion in the case you won to get the money back.

                  – Putvi
                  Apr 22 at 22:03











                • For the record, I was told I needed to open a whole new case at district court to get a hearing for the $350, which itself requires an $83 filing fee. I wish there were a simpler "file a motion" option like you said. I'll update here in a month or two with the result of the new case.

                  – bobuhito
                  Apr 22 at 22:34






                • 2





                  You have to file a new case if you want to sue, yes, but I just meant the court you won your case in has the power to reimburse you, like they do for legal fees etc.

                  – Putvi
                  Apr 22 at 22:46











                • @bobuhito Deducting pay from people for making mistakes is very illegal (not that that stops cops a lot of the time anyway).

                  – Azor Ahai
                  2 days ago













                6












                6








                6







                No, you can not sue him for this. A police officer has to have done something wrong for you to sue, not just his job.



                I know you are saying the ticket was not warranted, but even if you are right, he can say he made a mistake and thought you were too far over and he is in the clear unless you can show he intentionally gave you a ticket when it wasn't deserved.



                This article explains how and why an officer is normally immune from lawsuits.






                share|improve this answer















                No, you can not sue him for this. A police officer has to have done something wrong for you to sue, not just his job.



                I know you are saying the ticket was not warranted, but even if you are right, he can say he made a mistake and thought you were too far over and he is in the clear unless you can show he intentionally gave you a ticket when it wasn't deserved.



                This article explains how and why an officer is normally immune from lawsuits.







                share|improve this answer














                share|improve this answer



                share|improve this answer








                edited yesterday









                Community

                1




                1










                answered Apr 22 at 21:57









                PutviPutvi

                1,525214




                1,525214












                • Ok, I hope SPD deducts $350 from his pay then, assuming I win against SPD. I'll mark this as the answer, but give others a chance to answer for a few days first.

                  – bobuhito
                  Apr 22 at 22:01






                • 3





                  I get that it sucks, but they aren't going to take from his pay. File a motion in the case you won to get the money back.

                  – Putvi
                  Apr 22 at 22:03











                • For the record, I was told I needed to open a whole new case at district court to get a hearing for the $350, which itself requires an $83 filing fee. I wish there were a simpler "file a motion" option like you said. I'll update here in a month or two with the result of the new case.

                  – bobuhito
                  Apr 22 at 22:34






                • 2





                  You have to file a new case if you want to sue, yes, but I just meant the court you won your case in has the power to reimburse you, like they do for legal fees etc.

                  – Putvi
                  Apr 22 at 22:46











                • @bobuhito Deducting pay from people for making mistakes is very illegal (not that that stops cops a lot of the time anyway).

                  – Azor Ahai
                  2 days ago

















                • Ok, I hope SPD deducts $350 from his pay then, assuming I win against SPD. I'll mark this as the answer, but give others a chance to answer for a few days first.

                  – bobuhito
                  Apr 22 at 22:01






                • 3





                  I get that it sucks, but they aren't going to take from his pay. File a motion in the case you won to get the money back.

                  – Putvi
                  Apr 22 at 22:03











                • For the record, I was told I needed to open a whole new case at district court to get a hearing for the $350, which itself requires an $83 filing fee. I wish there were a simpler "file a motion" option like you said. I'll update here in a month or two with the result of the new case.

                  – bobuhito
                  Apr 22 at 22:34






                • 2





                  You have to file a new case if you want to sue, yes, but I just meant the court you won your case in has the power to reimburse you, like they do for legal fees etc.

                  – Putvi
                  Apr 22 at 22:46











                • @bobuhito Deducting pay from people for making mistakes is very illegal (not that that stops cops a lot of the time anyway).

                  – Azor Ahai
                  2 days ago
















                Ok, I hope SPD deducts $350 from his pay then, assuming I win against SPD. I'll mark this as the answer, but give others a chance to answer for a few days first.

                – bobuhito
                Apr 22 at 22:01





                Ok, I hope SPD deducts $350 from his pay then, assuming I win against SPD. I'll mark this as the answer, but give others a chance to answer for a few days first.

                – bobuhito
                Apr 22 at 22:01




                3




                3





                I get that it sucks, but they aren't going to take from his pay. File a motion in the case you won to get the money back.

                – Putvi
                Apr 22 at 22:03





                I get that it sucks, but they aren't going to take from his pay. File a motion in the case you won to get the money back.

                – Putvi
                Apr 22 at 22:03













                For the record, I was told I needed to open a whole new case at district court to get a hearing for the $350, which itself requires an $83 filing fee. I wish there were a simpler "file a motion" option like you said. I'll update here in a month or two with the result of the new case.

                – bobuhito
                Apr 22 at 22:34





                For the record, I was told I needed to open a whole new case at district court to get a hearing for the $350, which itself requires an $83 filing fee. I wish there were a simpler "file a motion" option like you said. I'll update here in a month or two with the result of the new case.

                – bobuhito
                Apr 22 at 22:34




                2




                2





                You have to file a new case if you want to sue, yes, but I just meant the court you won your case in has the power to reimburse you, like they do for legal fees etc.

                – Putvi
                Apr 22 at 22:46





                You have to file a new case if you want to sue, yes, but I just meant the court you won your case in has the power to reimburse you, like they do for legal fees etc.

                – Putvi
                Apr 22 at 22:46













                @bobuhito Deducting pay from people for making mistakes is very illegal (not that that stops cops a lot of the time anyway).

                – Azor Ahai
                2 days ago





                @bobuhito Deducting pay from people for making mistakes is very illegal (not that that stops cops a lot of the time anyway).

                – Azor Ahai
                2 days ago











                3














                Most of the answers are being too specific, vicarious liability would apply to the officer just as it does with any other employer. The employer is responsible for the employees incompetence, not the employee.



                As for your philosophical objections to the officer not paying, that is in fact why vicarious liability is so common and applies in this case. Because holding the officer liable would produce the opposite of what you are imagining. In this case the government got your $350, and you want to be reimbursed by the officer. That doesn’t do anything except encourage the employer to hire more incompetent people. They don’t even have to pay back the money they got! The most logical thing to do would be to find a balance between maximum income (so incompetent as to give a ticket to a moving vehicle for a parking violation) and public outrage that gets managers (politicians) fired.



                An employer basically has one recourse for actions by their employees that result in liability—-fire the offender so they don’t do it again. If they weren’t on the hook for liability, they could instead always shift the blame to the employee. There’s always going to be an employee involved somewhere, that did something that 20-20 hindsight says was the wrong thing to do. Yeah, the company doesn’t owe anything. Let’s do it again, but charge more.






                share|improve this answer



























                  3














                  Most of the answers are being too specific, vicarious liability would apply to the officer just as it does with any other employer. The employer is responsible for the employees incompetence, not the employee.



                  As for your philosophical objections to the officer not paying, that is in fact why vicarious liability is so common and applies in this case. Because holding the officer liable would produce the opposite of what you are imagining. In this case the government got your $350, and you want to be reimbursed by the officer. That doesn’t do anything except encourage the employer to hire more incompetent people. They don’t even have to pay back the money they got! The most logical thing to do would be to find a balance between maximum income (so incompetent as to give a ticket to a moving vehicle for a parking violation) and public outrage that gets managers (politicians) fired.



                  An employer basically has one recourse for actions by their employees that result in liability—-fire the offender so they don’t do it again. If they weren’t on the hook for liability, they could instead always shift the blame to the employee. There’s always going to be an employee involved somewhere, that did something that 20-20 hindsight says was the wrong thing to do. Yeah, the company doesn’t owe anything. Let’s do it again, but charge more.






                  share|improve this answer

























                    3












                    3








                    3







                    Most of the answers are being too specific, vicarious liability would apply to the officer just as it does with any other employer. The employer is responsible for the employees incompetence, not the employee.



                    As for your philosophical objections to the officer not paying, that is in fact why vicarious liability is so common and applies in this case. Because holding the officer liable would produce the opposite of what you are imagining. In this case the government got your $350, and you want to be reimbursed by the officer. That doesn’t do anything except encourage the employer to hire more incompetent people. They don’t even have to pay back the money they got! The most logical thing to do would be to find a balance between maximum income (so incompetent as to give a ticket to a moving vehicle for a parking violation) and public outrage that gets managers (politicians) fired.



                    An employer basically has one recourse for actions by their employees that result in liability—-fire the offender so they don’t do it again. If they weren’t on the hook for liability, they could instead always shift the blame to the employee. There’s always going to be an employee involved somewhere, that did something that 20-20 hindsight says was the wrong thing to do. Yeah, the company doesn’t owe anything. Let’s do it again, but charge more.






                    share|improve this answer













                    Most of the answers are being too specific, vicarious liability would apply to the officer just as it does with any other employer. The employer is responsible for the employees incompetence, not the employee.



                    As for your philosophical objections to the officer not paying, that is in fact why vicarious liability is so common and applies in this case. Because holding the officer liable would produce the opposite of what you are imagining. In this case the government got your $350, and you want to be reimbursed by the officer. That doesn’t do anything except encourage the employer to hire more incompetent people. They don’t even have to pay back the money they got! The most logical thing to do would be to find a balance between maximum income (so incompetent as to give a ticket to a moving vehicle for a parking violation) and public outrage that gets managers (politicians) fired.



                    An employer basically has one recourse for actions by their employees that result in liability—-fire the offender so they don’t do it again. If they weren’t on the hook for liability, they could instead always shift the blame to the employee. There’s always going to be an employee involved somewhere, that did something that 20-20 hindsight says was the wrong thing to do. Yeah, the company doesn’t owe anything. Let’s do it again, but charge more.







                    share|improve this answer












                    share|improve this answer



                    share|improve this answer










                    answered yesterday









                    jmorenojmoreno

                    1547




                    1547





















                        2














                        The biggest issue with your situation is that the police didn't get your $350. The towing company did. So even if you can get the police to admit they made a mistake, they don't have your money, and can't give it back. They will tell you to take it up with the towing company.



                        The towing company isn't going to give you your money back, because towing companies don't work that way. You could sue them, but you aren't likely to win, because even if you could prove that the towing company knew there was no violation, and therefore no reason to tow your car, they will say they were following the order of a police officer, and there is probably some ordinance that says that a direct order from a police officer trumps everything else. So the towing company will point to the police and say, take it up with them.



                        You're caught in an infinite loop.



                        The only way to break the loop is to prove fraud or conspiracy. That the towing company towed your legally parked car with the intention of extorting a ransom for it. But they'll just say the police ordered them to do it. No case there. So you need to prove that the police intentionally ordered the car towed without cause. That's going to be really tough to do. Your best bet is to find some sort of link between the police officer and the towing company. A kickback of some kind, but good luck with that. Otherwise, it's just a mistake, and officers are allowed to make mistakes.



                        Another thing to consider is that some part of the $350 the towing company charged goes to the city, as part of the towing services contract. I looked it up, and there is a "city administrative fee" of $35 that I think you should get back from the city. It's not much, but it's better than nothing.






                        share|improve this answer




















                        • 1





                          The police could acknowledge that the 350 towing fee was a result of their error, and choose to refund it. Whether they will do that out of good will I can't say. Whether a court would compel them to is unclear, but probably only if it was proved that the offivcer's action was not just a mistake, but unreasonable or malicious. That would be hard to prove.

                          – David Siegel
                          yesterday






                        • 1





                          @DavidSiegel: Sue them both under joint liability in one court action. No infinite loop. If you can get a jury trial you might even win.

                          – Joshua
                          yesterday











                        • @Joshua The towing company would likely move to have the case against it dismissed on the ground that it simply followed an apparently valid police order to tow, that it performed the service, and that it is not liable for any mistake by the police officer. It would probably win that dismissal. Joint suit would have added nothing except legal fees.

                          – David Siegel
                          yesterday






                        • 1





                          So, assume that theoretically it could be proved that the car was not parked illegally - perhaps a picture, a GPS log, or something similar. Is it legally possible to retrieve the entire $350? Sounds like the answer is no...

                          – Scot
                          23 hours ago












                        • @Scot The bottom line is that the towing company did nothing wrong. They performed a service for which they deserve to get paid, so you won't get your money back from them. The police screwed up, but they aren't set up to refund money for mistakes, so you won't get your money back from them. I think you do have a valid claim against the city, and there is probably a process to file a claim. In fact, here it is: seattle.gov/filing-a-damage-claim. Give up trying to punish the police or the officer. That will get you nowhere.

                          – Mohair
                          11 hours ago















                        2














                        The biggest issue with your situation is that the police didn't get your $350. The towing company did. So even if you can get the police to admit they made a mistake, they don't have your money, and can't give it back. They will tell you to take it up with the towing company.



                        The towing company isn't going to give you your money back, because towing companies don't work that way. You could sue them, but you aren't likely to win, because even if you could prove that the towing company knew there was no violation, and therefore no reason to tow your car, they will say they were following the order of a police officer, and there is probably some ordinance that says that a direct order from a police officer trumps everything else. So the towing company will point to the police and say, take it up with them.



                        You're caught in an infinite loop.



                        The only way to break the loop is to prove fraud or conspiracy. That the towing company towed your legally parked car with the intention of extorting a ransom for it. But they'll just say the police ordered them to do it. No case there. So you need to prove that the police intentionally ordered the car towed without cause. That's going to be really tough to do. Your best bet is to find some sort of link between the police officer and the towing company. A kickback of some kind, but good luck with that. Otherwise, it's just a mistake, and officers are allowed to make mistakes.



                        Another thing to consider is that some part of the $350 the towing company charged goes to the city, as part of the towing services contract. I looked it up, and there is a "city administrative fee" of $35 that I think you should get back from the city. It's not much, but it's better than nothing.






                        share|improve this answer




















                        • 1





                          The police could acknowledge that the 350 towing fee was a result of their error, and choose to refund it. Whether they will do that out of good will I can't say. Whether a court would compel them to is unclear, but probably only if it was proved that the offivcer's action was not just a mistake, but unreasonable or malicious. That would be hard to prove.

                          – David Siegel
                          yesterday






                        • 1





                          @DavidSiegel: Sue them both under joint liability in one court action. No infinite loop. If you can get a jury trial you might even win.

                          – Joshua
                          yesterday











                        • @Joshua The towing company would likely move to have the case against it dismissed on the ground that it simply followed an apparently valid police order to tow, that it performed the service, and that it is not liable for any mistake by the police officer. It would probably win that dismissal. Joint suit would have added nothing except legal fees.

                          – David Siegel
                          yesterday






                        • 1





                          So, assume that theoretically it could be proved that the car was not parked illegally - perhaps a picture, a GPS log, or something similar. Is it legally possible to retrieve the entire $350? Sounds like the answer is no...

                          – Scot
                          23 hours ago












                        • @Scot The bottom line is that the towing company did nothing wrong. They performed a service for which they deserve to get paid, so you won't get your money back from them. The police screwed up, but they aren't set up to refund money for mistakes, so you won't get your money back from them. I think you do have a valid claim against the city, and there is probably a process to file a claim. In fact, here it is: seattle.gov/filing-a-damage-claim. Give up trying to punish the police or the officer. That will get you nowhere.

                          – Mohair
                          11 hours ago













                        2












                        2








                        2







                        The biggest issue with your situation is that the police didn't get your $350. The towing company did. So even if you can get the police to admit they made a mistake, they don't have your money, and can't give it back. They will tell you to take it up with the towing company.



                        The towing company isn't going to give you your money back, because towing companies don't work that way. You could sue them, but you aren't likely to win, because even if you could prove that the towing company knew there was no violation, and therefore no reason to tow your car, they will say they were following the order of a police officer, and there is probably some ordinance that says that a direct order from a police officer trumps everything else. So the towing company will point to the police and say, take it up with them.



                        You're caught in an infinite loop.



                        The only way to break the loop is to prove fraud or conspiracy. That the towing company towed your legally parked car with the intention of extorting a ransom for it. But they'll just say the police ordered them to do it. No case there. So you need to prove that the police intentionally ordered the car towed without cause. That's going to be really tough to do. Your best bet is to find some sort of link between the police officer and the towing company. A kickback of some kind, but good luck with that. Otherwise, it's just a mistake, and officers are allowed to make mistakes.



                        Another thing to consider is that some part of the $350 the towing company charged goes to the city, as part of the towing services contract. I looked it up, and there is a "city administrative fee" of $35 that I think you should get back from the city. It's not much, but it's better than nothing.






                        share|improve this answer















                        The biggest issue with your situation is that the police didn't get your $350. The towing company did. So even if you can get the police to admit they made a mistake, they don't have your money, and can't give it back. They will tell you to take it up with the towing company.



                        The towing company isn't going to give you your money back, because towing companies don't work that way. You could sue them, but you aren't likely to win, because even if you could prove that the towing company knew there was no violation, and therefore no reason to tow your car, they will say they were following the order of a police officer, and there is probably some ordinance that says that a direct order from a police officer trumps everything else. So the towing company will point to the police and say, take it up with them.



                        You're caught in an infinite loop.



                        The only way to break the loop is to prove fraud or conspiracy. That the towing company towed your legally parked car with the intention of extorting a ransom for it. But they'll just say the police ordered them to do it. No case there. So you need to prove that the police intentionally ordered the car towed without cause. That's going to be really tough to do. Your best bet is to find some sort of link between the police officer and the towing company. A kickback of some kind, but good luck with that. Otherwise, it's just a mistake, and officers are allowed to make mistakes.



                        Another thing to consider is that some part of the $350 the towing company charged goes to the city, as part of the towing services contract. I looked it up, and there is a "city administrative fee" of $35 that I think you should get back from the city. It's not much, but it's better than nothing.







                        share|improve this answer














                        share|improve this answer



                        share|improve this answer








                        edited yesterday

























                        answered yesterday









                        MohairMohair

                        35515




                        35515







                        • 1





                          The police could acknowledge that the 350 towing fee was a result of their error, and choose to refund it. Whether they will do that out of good will I can't say. Whether a court would compel them to is unclear, but probably only if it was proved that the offivcer's action was not just a mistake, but unreasonable or malicious. That would be hard to prove.

                          – David Siegel
                          yesterday






                        • 1





                          @DavidSiegel: Sue them both under joint liability in one court action. No infinite loop. If you can get a jury trial you might even win.

                          – Joshua
                          yesterday











                        • @Joshua The towing company would likely move to have the case against it dismissed on the ground that it simply followed an apparently valid police order to tow, that it performed the service, and that it is not liable for any mistake by the police officer. It would probably win that dismissal. Joint suit would have added nothing except legal fees.

                          – David Siegel
                          yesterday






                        • 1





                          So, assume that theoretically it could be proved that the car was not parked illegally - perhaps a picture, a GPS log, or something similar. Is it legally possible to retrieve the entire $350? Sounds like the answer is no...

                          – Scot
                          23 hours ago












                        • @Scot The bottom line is that the towing company did nothing wrong. They performed a service for which they deserve to get paid, so you won't get your money back from them. The police screwed up, but they aren't set up to refund money for mistakes, so you won't get your money back from them. I think you do have a valid claim against the city, and there is probably a process to file a claim. In fact, here it is: seattle.gov/filing-a-damage-claim. Give up trying to punish the police or the officer. That will get you nowhere.

                          – Mohair
                          11 hours ago












                        • 1





                          The police could acknowledge that the 350 towing fee was a result of their error, and choose to refund it. Whether they will do that out of good will I can't say. Whether a court would compel them to is unclear, but probably only if it was proved that the offivcer's action was not just a mistake, but unreasonable or malicious. That would be hard to prove.

                          – David Siegel
                          yesterday






                        • 1





                          @DavidSiegel: Sue them both under joint liability in one court action. No infinite loop. If you can get a jury trial you might even win.

                          – Joshua
                          yesterday











                        • @Joshua The towing company would likely move to have the case against it dismissed on the ground that it simply followed an apparently valid police order to tow, that it performed the service, and that it is not liable for any mistake by the police officer. It would probably win that dismissal. Joint suit would have added nothing except legal fees.

                          – David Siegel
                          yesterday






                        • 1





                          So, assume that theoretically it could be proved that the car was not parked illegally - perhaps a picture, a GPS log, or something similar. Is it legally possible to retrieve the entire $350? Sounds like the answer is no...

                          – Scot
                          23 hours ago












                        • @Scot The bottom line is that the towing company did nothing wrong. They performed a service for which they deserve to get paid, so you won't get your money back from them. The police screwed up, but they aren't set up to refund money for mistakes, so you won't get your money back from them. I think you do have a valid claim against the city, and there is probably a process to file a claim. In fact, here it is: seattle.gov/filing-a-damage-claim. Give up trying to punish the police or the officer. That will get you nowhere.

                          – Mohair
                          11 hours ago







                        1




                        1





                        The police could acknowledge that the 350 towing fee was a result of their error, and choose to refund it. Whether they will do that out of good will I can't say. Whether a court would compel them to is unclear, but probably only if it was proved that the offivcer's action was not just a mistake, but unreasonable or malicious. That would be hard to prove.

                        – David Siegel
                        yesterday





                        The police could acknowledge that the 350 towing fee was a result of their error, and choose to refund it. Whether they will do that out of good will I can't say. Whether a court would compel them to is unclear, but probably only if it was proved that the offivcer's action was not just a mistake, but unreasonable or malicious. That would be hard to prove.

                        – David Siegel
                        yesterday




                        1




                        1





                        @DavidSiegel: Sue them both under joint liability in one court action. No infinite loop. If you can get a jury trial you might even win.

                        – Joshua
                        yesterday





                        @DavidSiegel: Sue them both under joint liability in one court action. No infinite loop. If you can get a jury trial you might even win.

                        – Joshua
                        yesterday













                        @Joshua The towing company would likely move to have the case against it dismissed on the ground that it simply followed an apparently valid police order to tow, that it performed the service, and that it is not liable for any mistake by the police officer. It would probably win that dismissal. Joint suit would have added nothing except legal fees.

                        – David Siegel
                        yesterday





                        @Joshua The towing company would likely move to have the case against it dismissed on the ground that it simply followed an apparently valid police order to tow, that it performed the service, and that it is not liable for any mistake by the police officer. It would probably win that dismissal. Joint suit would have added nothing except legal fees.

                        – David Siegel
                        yesterday




                        1




                        1





                        So, assume that theoretically it could be proved that the car was not parked illegally - perhaps a picture, a GPS log, or something similar. Is it legally possible to retrieve the entire $350? Sounds like the answer is no...

                        – Scot
                        23 hours ago






                        So, assume that theoretically it could be proved that the car was not parked illegally - perhaps a picture, a GPS log, or something similar. Is it legally possible to retrieve the entire $350? Sounds like the answer is no...

                        – Scot
                        23 hours ago














                        @Scot The bottom line is that the towing company did nothing wrong. They performed a service for which they deserve to get paid, so you won't get your money back from them. The police screwed up, but they aren't set up to refund money for mistakes, so you won't get your money back from them. I think you do have a valid claim against the city, and there is probably a process to file a claim. In fact, here it is: seattle.gov/filing-a-damage-claim. Give up trying to punish the police or the officer. That will get you nowhere.

                        – Mohair
                        11 hours ago





                        @Scot The bottom line is that the towing company did nothing wrong. They performed a service for which they deserve to get paid, so you won't get your money back from them. The police screwed up, but they aren't set up to refund money for mistakes, so you won't get your money back from them. I think you do have a valid claim against the city, and there is probably a process to file a claim. In fact, here it is: seattle.gov/filing-a-damage-claim. Give up trying to punish the police or the officer. That will get you nowhere.

                        – Mohair
                        11 hours ago











                        1














                        There are laws in place in some states and cities that prevent a towing company from holding your vehicle hostage if you don't pay the tow fee. I know this doesn't help you right now, but I post as an answer to bring awareness to anyone else who may find themselves in a similar situation.



                        In your case (assuming Seattle or Washington state has a similar law) you could have retrieved your vehicle from impound without being forced to pay the tow fee. You'd be billed for the tow, of course, but if you could have subsequently showed the (alleged) illegal parking offense was dismissed, you might have been able to dispute the $350 charge legally.



                        As I said, this is not a universal policy, so it won't apply to every person or in every situation. Do some local research so you have the facts if you should be improperly towed.






                        share|improve this answer








                        New contributor




                        Headblender is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                        Check out our Code of Conduct.
























                          1














                          There are laws in place in some states and cities that prevent a towing company from holding your vehicle hostage if you don't pay the tow fee. I know this doesn't help you right now, but I post as an answer to bring awareness to anyone else who may find themselves in a similar situation.



                          In your case (assuming Seattle or Washington state has a similar law) you could have retrieved your vehicle from impound without being forced to pay the tow fee. You'd be billed for the tow, of course, but if you could have subsequently showed the (alleged) illegal parking offense was dismissed, you might have been able to dispute the $350 charge legally.



                          As I said, this is not a universal policy, so it won't apply to every person or in every situation. Do some local research so you have the facts if you should be improperly towed.






                          share|improve this answer








                          New contributor




                          Headblender is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                          Check out our Code of Conduct.






















                            1












                            1








                            1







                            There are laws in place in some states and cities that prevent a towing company from holding your vehicle hostage if you don't pay the tow fee. I know this doesn't help you right now, but I post as an answer to bring awareness to anyone else who may find themselves in a similar situation.



                            In your case (assuming Seattle or Washington state has a similar law) you could have retrieved your vehicle from impound without being forced to pay the tow fee. You'd be billed for the tow, of course, but if you could have subsequently showed the (alleged) illegal parking offense was dismissed, you might have been able to dispute the $350 charge legally.



                            As I said, this is not a universal policy, so it won't apply to every person or in every situation. Do some local research so you have the facts if you should be improperly towed.






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                            There are laws in place in some states and cities that prevent a towing company from holding your vehicle hostage if you don't pay the tow fee. I know this doesn't help you right now, but I post as an answer to bring awareness to anyone else who may find themselves in a similar situation.



                            In your case (assuming Seattle or Washington state has a similar law) you could have retrieved your vehicle from impound without being forced to pay the tow fee. You'd be billed for the tow, of course, but if you could have subsequently showed the (alleged) illegal parking offense was dismissed, you might have been able to dispute the $350 charge legally.



                            As I said, this is not a universal policy, so it won't apply to every person or in every situation. Do some local research so you have the facts if you should be improperly towed.







                            share|improve this answer








                            New contributor




                            Headblender is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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                            share|improve this answer



                            share|improve this answer






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                            answered 2 days ago









                            HeadblenderHeadblender

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