How to explain what's wrong with this application of the chain rule?Students using l'Hôpital's Rule on the terms of a series, instead of the Limit Comparison TestHow does CalcChat work, and how can students who use it be encouraged to do so constructively?How to prove Taylor formulas?How can I explain $lim_x to infty frace^x+e^-xe^x-e^-x$ using L'Hôpital's Rule?How can we neatly explain chain rule of differentiation“Function” vs “Function of …”: how much does it contribute to students difficulties?Tutoring a recalcitrant/awkward/exasperating student---special needs?What's the best way to explain multivariable limit problems to students who are not familiar with $epsilon-delta$ proofs?Justifying the multi-variable chain rule to studentsAre questions on overlapping solids of revolutions without prior definitions and instructions fair given that there are divided interpretations?

Which was the first story featuring espers?

How to draw a matrix with arrows in limited space

Multiplicative persistence

How to preserve electronics (computers, iPads and phones) for hundreds of years

Does Doodling or Improvising on the Piano Have Any Benefits?

What kind of floor tile is this?

What fields between the rationals and the reals allow a good notion of 2D distance?

Can you use Vicious Mockery to win an argument or gain favours?

What to do when eye contact makes your coworker uncomfortable?

Why can't the Brexit deadlock in the UK parliament be solved with a plurality vote?

Is there a RAID 0 Equivalent for RAM?

C++ copy constructor called at return

Taxes on Dividends in a Roth IRA

Microchip documentation does not label CAN buss pins on micro controller pinout diagram

A variation to the phrase "hanging over my shoulders"

How to convince somebody that he is fit for something else, but not this job?

Did the UK lift the requirement for registering SIM cards?

Why is the Sun approximated as a black body at ~ 5800 K?

Why Shazam when there is already Superman?

"before" and "want" for the same systemd service?

What does "Scientists rise up against statistical significance" mean? (Comment in Nature)

Does grappling negate Mirror Image?

Biological Blimps: Propulsion

What do you call a word that can be spelled forward or backward forming two different words



How to explain what's wrong with this application of the chain rule?


Students using l'Hôpital's Rule on the terms of a series, instead of the Limit Comparison TestHow does CalcChat work, and how can students who use it be encouraged to do so constructively?How to prove Taylor formulas?How can I explain $lim_x to infty frace^x+e^-xe^x-e^-x$ using L'Hôpital's Rule?How can we neatly explain chain rule of differentiation“Function” vs “Function of …”: how much does it contribute to students difficulties?Tutoring a recalcitrant/awkward/exasperating student---special needs?What's the best way to explain multivariable limit problems to students who are not familiar with $epsilon-delta$ proofs?Justifying the multi-variable chain rule to studentsAre questions on overlapping solids of revolutions without prior definitions and instructions fair given that there are divided interpretations?













2












$begingroup$


Yesterday a student in my calculus class attempted something like this:



Task: Derive $3^5x+1$ with respect to $x$.



Proposed solution: Let the inner function be $g(x)=3$ and the outer function be $f(z)=z^5x+1$, so that $f(g(x))=3^5x+1$. Then $f'(z)=(5x+1)cdot z^5x$ and $g'(x)=0$, so by the chain rule
$$
fracd (3^5x+1)dx = f'(g(x))g'(x)=0.
$$



I had difficulties to explain what's wrong with this and basically just told the student "the" right way to do it. Although I now have a rough idea of what's wrong, I'd like to hear from others:



  1. Have you seen similar attempts?

  2. How would you explain to a beginning calculus student what's wrong with this specific solution?









share|improve this question









$endgroup$
















    2












    $begingroup$


    Yesterday a student in my calculus class attempted something like this:



    Task: Derive $3^5x+1$ with respect to $x$.



    Proposed solution: Let the inner function be $g(x)=3$ and the outer function be $f(z)=z^5x+1$, so that $f(g(x))=3^5x+1$. Then $f'(z)=(5x+1)cdot z^5x$ and $g'(x)=0$, so by the chain rule
    $$
    fracd (3^5x+1)dx = f'(g(x))g'(x)=0.
    $$



    I had difficulties to explain what's wrong with this and basically just told the student "the" right way to do it. Although I now have a rough idea of what's wrong, I'd like to hear from others:



    1. Have you seen similar attempts?

    2. How would you explain to a beginning calculus student what's wrong with this specific solution?









    share|improve this question









    $endgroup$














      2












      2








      2





      $begingroup$


      Yesterday a student in my calculus class attempted something like this:



      Task: Derive $3^5x+1$ with respect to $x$.



      Proposed solution: Let the inner function be $g(x)=3$ and the outer function be $f(z)=z^5x+1$, so that $f(g(x))=3^5x+1$. Then $f'(z)=(5x+1)cdot z^5x$ and $g'(x)=0$, so by the chain rule
      $$
      fracd (3^5x+1)dx = f'(g(x))g'(x)=0.
      $$



      I had difficulties to explain what's wrong with this and basically just told the student "the" right way to do it. Although I now have a rough idea of what's wrong, I'd like to hear from others:



      1. Have you seen similar attempts?

      2. How would you explain to a beginning calculus student what's wrong with this specific solution?









      share|improve this question









      $endgroup$




      Yesterday a student in my calculus class attempted something like this:



      Task: Derive $3^5x+1$ with respect to $x$.



      Proposed solution: Let the inner function be $g(x)=3$ and the outer function be $f(z)=z^5x+1$, so that $f(g(x))=3^5x+1$. Then $f'(z)=(5x+1)cdot z^5x$ and $g'(x)=0$, so by the chain rule
      $$
      fracd (3^5x+1)dx = f'(g(x))g'(x)=0.
      $$



      I had difficulties to explain what's wrong with this and basically just told the student "the" right way to do it. Although I now have a rough idea of what's wrong, I'd like to hear from others:



      1. Have you seen similar attempts?

      2. How would you explain to a beginning calculus student what's wrong with this specific solution?






      calculus






      share|improve this question













      share|improve this question











      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question










      asked 5 hours ago









      Michael BächtoldMichael Bächtold

      566312




      566312




















          3 Answers
          3






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          4












          $begingroup$

          f is not a function of (only) z - f here is a function of x as well as z. I think this explanation is intelligible to a calc 1 student, and gets at the heart of the matter.






          share|improve this answer









          $endgroup$








          • 1




            $begingroup$
            Hmm, so the student should reply: as soon as $f(x)$ contains parameters other than $x$ I am not allowed to apply the chain rule?
            $endgroup$
            – Michael Bächtold
            5 hours ago











          • $begingroup$
            By the way: to my mind $f$ ist not a function of $z$ at all. Maybe you meant $f(z)$?
            $endgroup$
            – Michael Bächtold
            5 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            @MichaelBächtold: The student should know that if f(x) contains variables other than x then the chain rule doesn't apply. (This might be an opportunity to mention that there is a variant of the chain rule to be learned later for covering such situations.) I decline to get into a pedantic discussion of the distinction between f and f(z).
            $endgroup$
            – Henry Towsner
            3 hours ago






          • 1




            $begingroup$
            I'm quite sure you use the chain rule to derive things that contain more than just $x$ in your calculus class, like $sqrtx^2+k$. You might say: that's ok if we treat $k$ as a constant and not as a variable. But then student might then ask: why am I not allowed to treat $x$ as a constant in the definition of $f$? (And a mathematician might add: what's the difference between a variable and a constant?). Apologies if my pedantry offends you.
            $endgroup$
            – Michael Bächtold
            3 hours ago






          • 3




            $begingroup$
            @MichaelBächtold: In general, the difference between a variable and a constant is contextual and tricky to make precise, but for purposes of the chain rule in this case, x is a variable because we're taking the derivative with respect to it. I find that students don't usually have difficulty with this point (for instance, one could imagine students getting confused about the difference between the derivative of f(x)=c and f(x)=x, but that's not a particularly common issue), because it's a clean syntactic rule and it's backed up by the notion (x and z are conventionally variables, k isn't).
            $endgroup$
            – Henry Towsner
            2 hours ago


















          2












          $begingroup$

          This is a VERY VERY typical problem. In fact, it's a problem even for $fracddx3^x$, much less your example.



          The way I try to deal with this is one of two ways.



          1. What has to happen first? To evaluate $3^5x+1$, you have to evaluate $5x+1$ first. So that is the inside function in the chain rule, just like in $sin(x^2)$ you have $x^2$ to evaluate first, so it is the inside function.


          2. You could rethink how we notate or talk about exponential functions. In particular, Excel has $e^x$ written as exp(x) (I think as an option). So one can ask what the "input" is here.


          However, on the plus side the student does seem to have the chain rule down; it's just the exponential notation that is causing trouble. So there is definitely hope here. And again, you should not be surprised at encountering this, so it is worth your time to come up with several possible responses for it in the long run. Good luck!






          share|improve this answer









          $endgroup$




















            0












            $begingroup$

            The root of the difficulty is that $x$ appears free in $f(z)$, but we are trying to "capture" it with $g(x)$, which is illegal. When we substitute $g(x)$ into $f(g(x))$, we have a variable clash:
            $$
            f(g(colorred x)) = 3^5colorbluex + 1
            $$



            The red (first) $x$ is a different variable from the blue (second) $x$. This is clearer if we rename the bound variable:
            $$
            f(g(colorred y)) = 3^5colorbluex + 1
            $$



            The original expression had $x$ bound to the $mathrm d x$, so by unbinding it, we have changed the meaning of the expression:
            $$
            fracmathrm dmathrm d colorblue x f(g(colorredy)) ne fracmathrm dmathrm d colorredy f(g(colorredy))
            $$



            (Incidentally, this is one reason I dislike the notation $f'(x)$, because it hides the variable of differentiation. Students must still be taught it, unfortunately, because Leibniz's notation is verbose in some contexts, but it should only be used as shorthand. Students should understand that it is a shorthand, and that there is still a variable of differentiation, even if it is not shown.)






            share|improve this answer











            $endgroup$












              Your Answer





              StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function ()
              return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function ()
              StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix)
              StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
              );
              );
              , "mathjax-editing");

              StackExchange.ready(function()
              var channelOptions =
              tags: "".split(" "),
              id: "548"
              ;
              initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

              StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
              // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
              if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
              StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
              createEditor();
              );

              else
              createEditor();

              );

              function createEditor()
              StackExchange.prepareEditor(
              heartbeatType: 'answer',
              autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
              convertImagesToLinks: false,
              noModals: true,
              showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
              reputationToPostImages: null,
              bindNavPrevention: true,
              postfix: "",
              imageUploader:
              brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
              contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
              allowUrls: true
              ,
              noCode: true, onDemand: true,
              discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
              ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
              );



              );













              draft saved

              draft discarded


















              StackExchange.ready(
              function ()
              StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmatheducators.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f15366%2fhow-to-explain-whats-wrong-with-this-application-of-the-chain-rule%23new-answer', 'question_page');

              );

              Post as a guest















              Required, but never shown

























              3 Answers
              3






              active

              oldest

              votes








              3 Answers
              3






              active

              oldest

              votes









              active

              oldest

              votes






              active

              oldest

              votes









              4












              $begingroup$

              f is not a function of (only) z - f here is a function of x as well as z. I think this explanation is intelligible to a calc 1 student, and gets at the heart of the matter.






              share|improve this answer









              $endgroup$








              • 1




                $begingroup$
                Hmm, so the student should reply: as soon as $f(x)$ contains parameters other than $x$ I am not allowed to apply the chain rule?
                $endgroup$
                – Michael Bächtold
                5 hours ago











              • $begingroup$
                By the way: to my mind $f$ ist not a function of $z$ at all. Maybe you meant $f(z)$?
                $endgroup$
                – Michael Bächtold
                5 hours ago










              • $begingroup$
                @MichaelBächtold: The student should know that if f(x) contains variables other than x then the chain rule doesn't apply. (This might be an opportunity to mention that there is a variant of the chain rule to be learned later for covering such situations.) I decline to get into a pedantic discussion of the distinction between f and f(z).
                $endgroup$
                – Henry Towsner
                3 hours ago






              • 1




                $begingroup$
                I'm quite sure you use the chain rule to derive things that contain more than just $x$ in your calculus class, like $sqrtx^2+k$. You might say: that's ok if we treat $k$ as a constant and not as a variable. But then student might then ask: why am I not allowed to treat $x$ as a constant in the definition of $f$? (And a mathematician might add: what's the difference between a variable and a constant?). Apologies if my pedantry offends you.
                $endgroup$
                – Michael Bächtold
                3 hours ago






              • 3




                $begingroup$
                @MichaelBächtold: In general, the difference between a variable and a constant is contextual and tricky to make precise, but for purposes of the chain rule in this case, x is a variable because we're taking the derivative with respect to it. I find that students don't usually have difficulty with this point (for instance, one could imagine students getting confused about the difference between the derivative of f(x)=c and f(x)=x, but that's not a particularly common issue), because it's a clean syntactic rule and it's backed up by the notion (x and z are conventionally variables, k isn't).
                $endgroup$
                – Henry Towsner
                2 hours ago















              4












              $begingroup$

              f is not a function of (only) z - f here is a function of x as well as z. I think this explanation is intelligible to a calc 1 student, and gets at the heart of the matter.






              share|improve this answer









              $endgroup$








              • 1




                $begingroup$
                Hmm, so the student should reply: as soon as $f(x)$ contains parameters other than $x$ I am not allowed to apply the chain rule?
                $endgroup$
                – Michael Bächtold
                5 hours ago











              • $begingroup$
                By the way: to my mind $f$ ist not a function of $z$ at all. Maybe you meant $f(z)$?
                $endgroup$
                – Michael Bächtold
                5 hours ago










              • $begingroup$
                @MichaelBächtold: The student should know that if f(x) contains variables other than x then the chain rule doesn't apply. (This might be an opportunity to mention that there is a variant of the chain rule to be learned later for covering such situations.) I decline to get into a pedantic discussion of the distinction between f and f(z).
                $endgroup$
                – Henry Towsner
                3 hours ago






              • 1




                $begingroup$
                I'm quite sure you use the chain rule to derive things that contain more than just $x$ in your calculus class, like $sqrtx^2+k$. You might say: that's ok if we treat $k$ as a constant and not as a variable. But then student might then ask: why am I not allowed to treat $x$ as a constant in the definition of $f$? (And a mathematician might add: what's the difference between a variable and a constant?). Apologies if my pedantry offends you.
                $endgroup$
                – Michael Bächtold
                3 hours ago






              • 3




                $begingroup$
                @MichaelBächtold: In general, the difference between a variable and a constant is contextual and tricky to make precise, but for purposes of the chain rule in this case, x is a variable because we're taking the derivative with respect to it. I find that students don't usually have difficulty with this point (for instance, one could imagine students getting confused about the difference between the derivative of f(x)=c and f(x)=x, but that's not a particularly common issue), because it's a clean syntactic rule and it's backed up by the notion (x and z are conventionally variables, k isn't).
                $endgroup$
                – Henry Towsner
                2 hours ago













              4












              4








              4





              $begingroup$

              f is not a function of (only) z - f here is a function of x as well as z. I think this explanation is intelligible to a calc 1 student, and gets at the heart of the matter.






              share|improve this answer









              $endgroup$



              f is not a function of (only) z - f here is a function of x as well as z. I think this explanation is intelligible to a calc 1 student, and gets at the heart of the matter.







              share|improve this answer












              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer










              answered 5 hours ago









              Henry TowsnerHenry Towsner

              6,9752349




              6,9752349







              • 1




                $begingroup$
                Hmm, so the student should reply: as soon as $f(x)$ contains parameters other than $x$ I am not allowed to apply the chain rule?
                $endgroup$
                – Michael Bächtold
                5 hours ago











              • $begingroup$
                By the way: to my mind $f$ ist not a function of $z$ at all. Maybe you meant $f(z)$?
                $endgroup$
                – Michael Bächtold
                5 hours ago










              • $begingroup$
                @MichaelBächtold: The student should know that if f(x) contains variables other than x then the chain rule doesn't apply. (This might be an opportunity to mention that there is a variant of the chain rule to be learned later for covering such situations.) I decline to get into a pedantic discussion of the distinction between f and f(z).
                $endgroup$
                – Henry Towsner
                3 hours ago






              • 1




                $begingroup$
                I'm quite sure you use the chain rule to derive things that contain more than just $x$ in your calculus class, like $sqrtx^2+k$. You might say: that's ok if we treat $k$ as a constant and not as a variable. But then student might then ask: why am I not allowed to treat $x$ as a constant in the definition of $f$? (And a mathematician might add: what's the difference between a variable and a constant?). Apologies if my pedantry offends you.
                $endgroup$
                – Michael Bächtold
                3 hours ago






              • 3




                $begingroup$
                @MichaelBächtold: In general, the difference between a variable and a constant is contextual and tricky to make precise, but for purposes of the chain rule in this case, x is a variable because we're taking the derivative with respect to it. I find that students don't usually have difficulty with this point (for instance, one could imagine students getting confused about the difference between the derivative of f(x)=c and f(x)=x, but that's not a particularly common issue), because it's a clean syntactic rule and it's backed up by the notion (x and z are conventionally variables, k isn't).
                $endgroup$
                – Henry Towsner
                2 hours ago












              • 1




                $begingroup$
                Hmm, so the student should reply: as soon as $f(x)$ contains parameters other than $x$ I am not allowed to apply the chain rule?
                $endgroup$
                – Michael Bächtold
                5 hours ago











              • $begingroup$
                By the way: to my mind $f$ ist not a function of $z$ at all. Maybe you meant $f(z)$?
                $endgroup$
                – Michael Bächtold
                5 hours ago










              • $begingroup$
                @MichaelBächtold: The student should know that if f(x) contains variables other than x then the chain rule doesn't apply. (This might be an opportunity to mention that there is a variant of the chain rule to be learned later for covering such situations.) I decline to get into a pedantic discussion of the distinction between f and f(z).
                $endgroup$
                – Henry Towsner
                3 hours ago






              • 1




                $begingroup$
                I'm quite sure you use the chain rule to derive things that contain more than just $x$ in your calculus class, like $sqrtx^2+k$. You might say: that's ok if we treat $k$ as a constant and not as a variable. But then student might then ask: why am I not allowed to treat $x$ as a constant in the definition of $f$? (And a mathematician might add: what's the difference between a variable and a constant?). Apologies if my pedantry offends you.
                $endgroup$
                – Michael Bächtold
                3 hours ago






              • 3




                $begingroup$
                @MichaelBächtold: In general, the difference between a variable and a constant is contextual and tricky to make precise, but for purposes of the chain rule in this case, x is a variable because we're taking the derivative with respect to it. I find that students don't usually have difficulty with this point (for instance, one could imagine students getting confused about the difference between the derivative of f(x)=c and f(x)=x, but that's not a particularly common issue), because it's a clean syntactic rule and it's backed up by the notion (x and z are conventionally variables, k isn't).
                $endgroup$
                – Henry Towsner
                2 hours ago







              1




              1




              $begingroup$
              Hmm, so the student should reply: as soon as $f(x)$ contains parameters other than $x$ I am not allowed to apply the chain rule?
              $endgroup$
              – Michael Bächtold
              5 hours ago





              $begingroup$
              Hmm, so the student should reply: as soon as $f(x)$ contains parameters other than $x$ I am not allowed to apply the chain rule?
              $endgroup$
              – Michael Bächtold
              5 hours ago













              $begingroup$
              By the way: to my mind $f$ ist not a function of $z$ at all. Maybe you meant $f(z)$?
              $endgroup$
              – Michael Bächtold
              5 hours ago




              $begingroup$
              By the way: to my mind $f$ ist not a function of $z$ at all. Maybe you meant $f(z)$?
              $endgroup$
              – Michael Bächtold
              5 hours ago












              $begingroup$
              @MichaelBächtold: The student should know that if f(x) contains variables other than x then the chain rule doesn't apply. (This might be an opportunity to mention that there is a variant of the chain rule to be learned later for covering such situations.) I decline to get into a pedantic discussion of the distinction between f and f(z).
              $endgroup$
              – Henry Towsner
              3 hours ago




              $begingroup$
              @MichaelBächtold: The student should know that if f(x) contains variables other than x then the chain rule doesn't apply. (This might be an opportunity to mention that there is a variant of the chain rule to be learned later for covering such situations.) I decline to get into a pedantic discussion of the distinction between f and f(z).
              $endgroup$
              – Henry Towsner
              3 hours ago




              1




              1




              $begingroup$
              I'm quite sure you use the chain rule to derive things that contain more than just $x$ in your calculus class, like $sqrtx^2+k$. You might say: that's ok if we treat $k$ as a constant and not as a variable. But then student might then ask: why am I not allowed to treat $x$ as a constant in the definition of $f$? (And a mathematician might add: what's the difference between a variable and a constant?). Apologies if my pedantry offends you.
              $endgroup$
              – Michael Bächtold
              3 hours ago




              $begingroup$
              I'm quite sure you use the chain rule to derive things that contain more than just $x$ in your calculus class, like $sqrtx^2+k$. You might say: that's ok if we treat $k$ as a constant and not as a variable. But then student might then ask: why am I not allowed to treat $x$ as a constant in the definition of $f$? (And a mathematician might add: what's the difference between a variable and a constant?). Apologies if my pedantry offends you.
              $endgroup$
              – Michael Bächtold
              3 hours ago




              3




              3




              $begingroup$
              @MichaelBächtold: In general, the difference between a variable and a constant is contextual and tricky to make precise, but for purposes of the chain rule in this case, x is a variable because we're taking the derivative with respect to it. I find that students don't usually have difficulty with this point (for instance, one could imagine students getting confused about the difference between the derivative of f(x)=c and f(x)=x, but that's not a particularly common issue), because it's a clean syntactic rule and it's backed up by the notion (x and z are conventionally variables, k isn't).
              $endgroup$
              – Henry Towsner
              2 hours ago




              $begingroup$
              @MichaelBächtold: In general, the difference between a variable and a constant is contextual and tricky to make precise, but for purposes of the chain rule in this case, x is a variable because we're taking the derivative with respect to it. I find that students don't usually have difficulty with this point (for instance, one could imagine students getting confused about the difference between the derivative of f(x)=c and f(x)=x, but that's not a particularly common issue), because it's a clean syntactic rule and it's backed up by the notion (x and z are conventionally variables, k isn't).
              $endgroup$
              – Henry Towsner
              2 hours ago











              2












              $begingroup$

              This is a VERY VERY typical problem. In fact, it's a problem even for $fracddx3^x$, much less your example.



              The way I try to deal with this is one of two ways.



              1. What has to happen first? To evaluate $3^5x+1$, you have to evaluate $5x+1$ first. So that is the inside function in the chain rule, just like in $sin(x^2)$ you have $x^2$ to evaluate first, so it is the inside function.


              2. You could rethink how we notate or talk about exponential functions. In particular, Excel has $e^x$ written as exp(x) (I think as an option). So one can ask what the "input" is here.


              However, on the plus side the student does seem to have the chain rule down; it's just the exponential notation that is causing trouble. So there is definitely hope here. And again, you should not be surprised at encountering this, so it is worth your time to come up with several possible responses for it in the long run. Good luck!






              share|improve this answer









              $endgroup$

















                2












                $begingroup$

                This is a VERY VERY typical problem. In fact, it's a problem even for $fracddx3^x$, much less your example.



                The way I try to deal with this is one of two ways.



                1. What has to happen first? To evaluate $3^5x+1$, you have to evaluate $5x+1$ first. So that is the inside function in the chain rule, just like in $sin(x^2)$ you have $x^2$ to evaluate first, so it is the inside function.


                2. You could rethink how we notate or talk about exponential functions. In particular, Excel has $e^x$ written as exp(x) (I think as an option). So one can ask what the "input" is here.


                However, on the plus side the student does seem to have the chain rule down; it's just the exponential notation that is causing trouble. So there is definitely hope here. And again, you should not be surprised at encountering this, so it is worth your time to come up with several possible responses for it in the long run. Good luck!






                share|improve this answer









                $endgroup$















                  2












                  2








                  2





                  $begingroup$

                  This is a VERY VERY typical problem. In fact, it's a problem even for $fracddx3^x$, much less your example.



                  The way I try to deal with this is one of two ways.



                  1. What has to happen first? To evaluate $3^5x+1$, you have to evaluate $5x+1$ first. So that is the inside function in the chain rule, just like in $sin(x^2)$ you have $x^2$ to evaluate first, so it is the inside function.


                  2. You could rethink how we notate or talk about exponential functions. In particular, Excel has $e^x$ written as exp(x) (I think as an option). So one can ask what the "input" is here.


                  However, on the plus side the student does seem to have the chain rule down; it's just the exponential notation that is causing trouble. So there is definitely hope here. And again, you should not be surprised at encountering this, so it is worth your time to come up with several possible responses for it in the long run. Good luck!






                  share|improve this answer









                  $endgroup$



                  This is a VERY VERY typical problem. In fact, it's a problem even for $fracddx3^x$, much less your example.



                  The way I try to deal with this is one of two ways.



                  1. What has to happen first? To evaluate $3^5x+1$, you have to evaluate $5x+1$ first. So that is the inside function in the chain rule, just like in $sin(x^2)$ you have $x^2$ to evaluate first, so it is the inside function.


                  2. You could rethink how we notate or talk about exponential functions. In particular, Excel has $e^x$ written as exp(x) (I think as an option). So one can ask what the "input" is here.


                  However, on the plus side the student does seem to have the chain rule down; it's just the exponential notation that is causing trouble. So there is definitely hope here. And again, you should not be surprised at encountering this, so it is worth your time to come up with several possible responses for it in the long run. Good luck!







                  share|improve this answer












                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer










                  answered 2 hours ago









                  kcrismankcrisman

                  3,480730




                  3,480730





















                      0












                      $begingroup$

                      The root of the difficulty is that $x$ appears free in $f(z)$, but we are trying to "capture" it with $g(x)$, which is illegal. When we substitute $g(x)$ into $f(g(x))$, we have a variable clash:
                      $$
                      f(g(colorred x)) = 3^5colorbluex + 1
                      $$



                      The red (first) $x$ is a different variable from the blue (second) $x$. This is clearer if we rename the bound variable:
                      $$
                      f(g(colorred y)) = 3^5colorbluex + 1
                      $$



                      The original expression had $x$ bound to the $mathrm d x$, so by unbinding it, we have changed the meaning of the expression:
                      $$
                      fracmathrm dmathrm d colorblue x f(g(colorredy)) ne fracmathrm dmathrm d colorredy f(g(colorredy))
                      $$



                      (Incidentally, this is one reason I dislike the notation $f'(x)$, because it hides the variable of differentiation. Students must still be taught it, unfortunately, because Leibniz's notation is verbose in some contexts, but it should only be used as shorthand. Students should understand that it is a shorthand, and that there is still a variable of differentiation, even if it is not shown.)






                      share|improve this answer











                      $endgroup$

















                        0












                        $begingroup$

                        The root of the difficulty is that $x$ appears free in $f(z)$, but we are trying to "capture" it with $g(x)$, which is illegal. When we substitute $g(x)$ into $f(g(x))$, we have a variable clash:
                        $$
                        f(g(colorred x)) = 3^5colorbluex + 1
                        $$



                        The red (first) $x$ is a different variable from the blue (second) $x$. This is clearer if we rename the bound variable:
                        $$
                        f(g(colorred y)) = 3^5colorbluex + 1
                        $$



                        The original expression had $x$ bound to the $mathrm d x$, so by unbinding it, we have changed the meaning of the expression:
                        $$
                        fracmathrm dmathrm d colorblue x f(g(colorredy)) ne fracmathrm dmathrm d colorredy f(g(colorredy))
                        $$



                        (Incidentally, this is one reason I dislike the notation $f'(x)$, because it hides the variable of differentiation. Students must still be taught it, unfortunately, because Leibniz's notation is verbose in some contexts, but it should only be used as shorthand. Students should understand that it is a shorthand, and that there is still a variable of differentiation, even if it is not shown.)






                        share|improve this answer











                        $endgroup$















                          0












                          0








                          0





                          $begingroup$

                          The root of the difficulty is that $x$ appears free in $f(z)$, but we are trying to "capture" it with $g(x)$, which is illegal. When we substitute $g(x)$ into $f(g(x))$, we have a variable clash:
                          $$
                          f(g(colorred x)) = 3^5colorbluex + 1
                          $$



                          The red (first) $x$ is a different variable from the blue (second) $x$. This is clearer if we rename the bound variable:
                          $$
                          f(g(colorred y)) = 3^5colorbluex + 1
                          $$



                          The original expression had $x$ bound to the $mathrm d x$, so by unbinding it, we have changed the meaning of the expression:
                          $$
                          fracmathrm dmathrm d colorblue x f(g(colorredy)) ne fracmathrm dmathrm d colorredy f(g(colorredy))
                          $$



                          (Incidentally, this is one reason I dislike the notation $f'(x)$, because it hides the variable of differentiation. Students must still be taught it, unfortunately, because Leibniz's notation is verbose in some contexts, but it should only be used as shorthand. Students should understand that it is a shorthand, and that there is still a variable of differentiation, even if it is not shown.)






                          share|improve this answer











                          $endgroup$



                          The root of the difficulty is that $x$ appears free in $f(z)$, but we are trying to "capture" it with $g(x)$, which is illegal. When we substitute $g(x)$ into $f(g(x))$, we have a variable clash:
                          $$
                          f(g(colorred x)) = 3^5colorbluex + 1
                          $$



                          The red (first) $x$ is a different variable from the blue (second) $x$. This is clearer if we rename the bound variable:
                          $$
                          f(g(colorred y)) = 3^5colorbluex + 1
                          $$



                          The original expression had $x$ bound to the $mathrm d x$, so by unbinding it, we have changed the meaning of the expression:
                          $$
                          fracmathrm dmathrm d colorblue x f(g(colorredy)) ne fracmathrm dmathrm d colorredy f(g(colorredy))
                          $$



                          (Incidentally, this is one reason I dislike the notation $f'(x)$, because it hides the variable of differentiation. Students must still be taught it, unfortunately, because Leibniz's notation is verbose in some contexts, but it should only be used as shorthand. Students should understand that it is a shorthand, and that there is still a variable of differentiation, even if it is not shown.)







                          share|improve this answer














                          share|improve this answer



                          share|improve this answer








                          edited 39 mins ago

























                          answered 44 mins ago









                          KevinKevin

                          1565




                          1565



























                              draft saved

                              draft discarded
















































                              Thanks for contributing an answer to Mathematics Educators Stack Exchange!


                              • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                              But avoid


                              • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                              • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.

                              Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


                              To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                              draft saved


                              draft discarded














                              StackExchange.ready(
                              function ()
                              StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmatheducators.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f15366%2fhow-to-explain-whats-wrong-with-this-application-of-the-chain-rule%23new-answer', 'question_page');

                              );

                              Post as a guest















                              Required, but never shown





















































                              Required, but never shown














                              Required, but never shown












                              Required, but never shown







                              Required, but never shown

































                              Required, but never shown














                              Required, but never shown












                              Required, but never shown







                              Required, but never shown







                              Popular posts from this blog

                              Благоевград Съдържание География | История | Население | Политика | Икономика и инфрастуктура | Здравеопазване | Образование и наука | Култура и забавления | Забележителности | Личности | Литература | Външни препратки | Бележки | Навигация42°01′18.99″ с. ш. 23°05′51″ и. д. / 42.021944° с. ш. 23.0975° и. д.*БлагоевградразширитередактиранеОфициален уебсайт на община БлагоевградНовинарски портал на Благоевград – blagoevgrad.euСайтове за БлагоевградНационален статистически институтdariknews.bgГригоровичъ, Викторъ. „Очеркъ путешествія по Европейской Турціи“. Москва, 1877.Стрезов, Георги. Два санджака от Източна Македония. Периодично списание на Българското книжовно дружество в Средец, кн. XXXVII и XXXVIII, 1891, стр. 18 – 19.Македония. Етнография и статистикаГаджанов, Димитър Г. Мюсюлманското население в Новоосвободените земи, в: Научна експедиция в Македония и Поморавието 1916, Военноиздателски комплекс „Св. Георги Победоносец“, Университетско издателство „Св. Климент Охридски“, София, 1993, стр. 244.паметник на незнайния четник&cd=18&hl=en&ct=clnk&client=firefox-a „История на днешен Благоевград“, взето от www.museumblg.com на 16 март 2010 г.„Справка за населението на град Благоевград, община Благоевград, област Благоевград, НСИ“„The population of all towns and villages in Blagoevgrad Province with 50 inhabitants or more according to census results and latest official estimates“„Ethnic composition, all places: 2011 census“История на Неврокопска епархия.Национален статистически институтМюсюлманско изповедание. Главно мюфтийствоНационален публичен регистър на храмовете в БългарияМюсюлманско изповедание. Главно мюфтийствоwww.dnes.bg Джамията в Благоевград не била паленаwww.sesc-bg.orgСписък на побратимени градовеТехническо побратимяванеГУМ грейва в цветовете на нощен Лас Вегас под името „Largo“, „МОЛ Благоевград“..., в. „Струма“grabo.bgwww.cinemaxbg.comррр4238731-067cad53a-0546-417b-a3d3-51e49b1d2232147736077147736077

                              What is the best defense strategy for Survival in Grand Theft Auto Online?What is JP used for in Grand Theft Auto Online?How do I setup a Crew HQ in Grand Theft Auto Online?How does stealth work in Grand Theft Auto Online?Is it possible to own more than 10 cars in Grand Theft Auto online?Where to find truck/trailers in Grand Theft Auto OnlineWhat are some of the best missions to do on Grand Theft Auto 5 onlineFastest Car in Grand Theft Auto V PCHow to setup a Crew vs Crew online session in Grand Theft Auto Online?Grand theft auto 5 crossplayingRestart Grand Theft Auto V Online?

                              How does Billy Russo acquire his 'Jigsaw' mask? Unicorn Meta Zoo #1: Why another podcast? Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara Favourite questions and answers from the 1st quarter of 2019Why does Bane wear the mask?Why does Kylo Ren wear a mask?Why did Captain America remove his mask while fighting Batroc the Leaper?How did the OA acquire her wisdom?Is Billy Breckenridge gay?How does Adrian Toomes hide his earnings from the IRS?What is the state of affairs on Nootka Sound by the end of season 1?How did Tia Dalma acquire Captain Barbossa's body?How is one “Deemed Worthy”, to acquire the Greatsword “Dawn”?How did Karen acquire the handgun?